http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake Just another bbPress community en-US Sun, 19 May 2013 18:01:58 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 q http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/search.php http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-285371 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 20:22:01 +0000 Max42 285371@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ <p>Quick question aimed at Nitro. Concerning your display picture, is that Cary Grant with a moustache? Which film is that? </p> http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-280441 Tue, 17 Jan 2012 04:10:58 +0000 Nitro 280441@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ <p>As someone who&#39;s actually served in a war, not stateside mind you, not as an armchair general or even a historian, I can tell you right now that details DO matter. Why?</p> <p>Because it&#39;s the TRUTH. And the truth is ugly sometimes. Horrific.</p> <p>How would you feel if someone suggested covering up the ugly details of the Auschwitz camp because an audience might find it &#39;uncomftorable&#39;?</p> <p>How about slavery and the whip and the hot sun and the blood and the families torn apart? Such images do, and SHOULD, make people uncomftorable.</p> <p>On this day, MLK&#39;s day, do you have any idea how horrified HE might be to realize that there are many black youths now who have no clue whatsoever about what went down in Detroit or Watts in the &#39;60&#39;s? Or the worship of thuggery over peace? Do you think he would ignore it because the topic might make peopel &#39;uncomftorable&#39;?</p> <p>The winds of facism have been blowing at the top for a while now, and are coming down into the valley where most of us live every day. From telling people what they can do with their bodies to continuing the exploitation of children&#39;s sexuality before they even understand what it is, to the &#39;illegal immigrant&#39; as the new boogeyman of our age, to pretending that everybody is nice, and evolved, and well groomed and interested in shiny things alone, and who wish and demand silence that pretends there is no ugliness that can go on behind them to build them...this is a poisonous wind, billowing like a drop of ink in still water.</p> <p>Sanitized versions of the truth might be fine for comedy and romance, but even for historical fiction are going too far, imo. </p> http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-280175 Mon, 09 Jan 2012 12:34:40 +0000 Jennygraham 280175@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ <p>I think there no need of making so much ado about naming dog. </p> http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-274581 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 04:27:37 +0000 TobiasMonk 274581@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ <p>Didn&#39;t realize it was a competition, rollosnook. The comparison of the 2 really is kind of pointless because the B-17 and Lancaster were very different animals. Yes the Lancaster carried a heavier pay load, but it couldn&#39;t climb as high or travel as far. It seems to make more sense to accept that both aircraft played important roles, in different ways, and each served their purpose. And for the same side &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.stephenfry.com/bb-content/plugins//bb-smilies/default/icon_wink.gif&quot; title=&quot;:wink:&quot; class=&quot;bb_smilies&quot; /&gt; </p> <p>As for the real message of the film, it&#39;s as it should be. War is hell, people die, and nothing is impervious. </p> http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-274555 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:44:54 +0000 rollosnook 274555@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ <p>It saddens me that people waste opportunities to focus on more important issues about the raids and the remake, by arguing about a dog. Slavery was a holocaust, to sit there and argue for turning back the clock, is frankly bizarre. Language changes through time, get over it.</p> <p>What is FAR more important is that this film is an opportunity to redress the notion that the B-17 single-handedly won the war. This raid took place before even the first B-17 raids, Bomber Command had been busy for 3 years already. The B-17 was an amazing aeroplane, but could only carry 6000lbs, while the Lancaster could carry 14,000lbs of bombs.<br /> The Lancaster too was able to take incredible punishment, just like the B-17, but unlike the B-17, performed many daring low-level raids such as the Dams, Augsburg raids and eventually carried 22,000 in broad daylight. </p> <p>Johnny Johnson, the highest-scoring allied pilot of WW2 wrote in his autobiography, that a bricklayer named &quot;Jock&quot; from Glasgow on the 6th of June, over Normandy, took his lancaster down to below 2000 feet and began a fighter-bomber strafing run on German convoys in the roads below. This kind of unofficial low-level bombing is just one of the many exploits of the Lancaster that we never see in the movies. Hopefully this film will redress the B-17/Lancaster argument and perhaps by showing the coastal flak and it&#39;s effect on the Lancasters, the movie will show the truth, that the Lancaster flew higher, lower, carried more and took more punishment at times, than it&#39;s US counterpart.</p> <p>The age old argument &quot;Oh well you guys did that at night didn&#39;t you, B-17&#39;s had to do it in broad daylight too&quot; is only factually correct for about 1 actual year of the war. After mid-1944, when the Luftwaffe were weakened in preparation for D-Day, RAF Bomber Command routinely flew daylight missions with four-engined heavy bombers such as the Lancaster. The USAAF received drop tanks and also Mustang fighters around the same time in 1944 and similarly enjoyed greater protection.</p> <p>I&#39;m nervous about this remake. Seems strange to revisit an old topic, when there are so many heroic and important deeds still yet to be chronicled by the media.</p> <p>The real message of this movie, should be about British scientists being far ahead of the Americans in many areas, but our Government failing to manage our resources properly. As a result America took the lead after the war and has maintained it ever since. This is the real shame. Our present Government should go and watch this movie.</p> <p>I fully agree with MissPrim, tampering is wrong. They don&#39;t need to actually say the Dog&#39;s name, you could see the Pilots observe the breach and cut to Scampton, where an officer says &quot;codeword received&quot; </p> http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-158785 Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:04:07 +0000 charteredstreets 158785@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ I can't believe this has generated fuss; if those involved hadn't flagged it up as a tricky point of controversy, and instead just changed it like any sensible person would, there wouldn't have been much noise. Most people who walked into a remake of The Dambusters would NOT know the name of the dog beforehand, and would find the use of the 'N' word completely incongruous. It would sound both offensive and ridiculous. It is unrealistic to think that most people in the audience would just nod and say 'well things were different then.' They'd wonder why it was used in a movie made NOW. And the people who think it should be kept for historical accuracy make my blood boil a little; it's a MOVIE. People who look at it as a factually accurate historical document are clearly too stupid to be entitled to opinions. And people who think that changing it amounts to 'whitewashing' history are living on another planet. http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-130721 Thu, 16 Apr 2009 07:10:11 +0000 Annaliese 130721@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ It amazes me all the controversy over the dog's name whilst brushing under the carpet all the unimaginable horrors these raids caused on the ground.<br /> <br /> But, of course, this will NEVER be shown as it would spoil the film, wldnt it?<br /> <br /> Perhaps some tips shld be taken from the film &quot;Dresden&quot;. http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-119571 Tue, 17 Mar 2009 13:48:05 +0000 G for George 119571@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ Watch many American comedies with black actors eg. Bad Boys, Beverley Hills Cop. They use the N word frequently. So why is it a problem for this film? Particularly as there is no racism intended! http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake/page/2#post-119115 Mon, 16 Mar 2009 12:09:14 +0000 niconner 119115@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ <blockquote><cite>&quot;FeiJi Fancier&quot;&nbsp;&raquo;&nbsp;</cite>I think the dog is not something that needs to be mentioned at all. That's the best way to avoid any controversy, surely.<br /> <br /> There is more than enough new material and information about the actual event to make the film more accurate and longer - and people's lives and their contributions are surely more important.<br /> <br /> While Gibby no doubt had a bond with his pet, I don't think it is of such importance that it needs to be considered at all.<br /> voiced.</blockquote><br /> <br /> The dogs name is some thing binded in the storie as he was known to be man and his dog the dog became the mascot of 617 squadron and niger became the code word for a hit on the damns. http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake#post-108913 Sun, 15 Feb 2009 09:23:39 +0000 donhsf 108913@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ I have a great solution. Rather than a black labrador, give Gibson a motley colored mongrel with white hindquarters and call him &quot;Knickers&quot;. This would be a name that makes sense, unlike &quot;Nidge&quot;. It conjures up a visual image of the dog so the name is associated with the appearance and complements the other code word honoring &quot;Dinghy&quot; Johnson, all without offending anybody. When I first saw the censored American version years ago on T.V., I didn't give a thought to the name&quot; Trigger&quot;. I recently saw an original version on Turner Classic Movies and didn't believe what I thought I was hearing until I looked it up to be sure. When I heard about the remake, I thought it would be taking political correctness too far to change the name, but now I'm not so sure. A lot of things in the original film were changed from the actual events, so this is not sacred writ. It might not be offensive, but it is certainly disconcerting to hear the communications guy shout &quot;It's N......!&quot; and see everybody celebrating: It conjures up images of &quot;Blazing Saddles&quot;, rather than a serious war picture. Stephen:make the dog &quot;Knickers&quot; and your problems will go away. http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake#post-104987 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:57:35 +0000 moobsuk 104987@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ The Black Country is a loosely defined area of the English West Midlands conurbation, to the north and west of Birmingham, and to the south and east of Wolverhampton, around the South Staffordshire coalfield. It has a combined population of around one million.<br /> <br /> By the late 19th century, this area had become one of the most intensely industrialised in the nation. The South Staffordshire coal mines, the coal coking operations, and the iron foundries and steel mills that used the local coal to fire their furnaces, produced a level of air pollution that had few equals anywhere in the world.<br /> <br /> It is popularly believed that The Black Country got its name because of pollution from these heavy industries that covered the area in black soot. There is an anecdote (of dubious authenticity) about Queen Victoria ordering the blinds lowered on her carriage as the royal train passed through. However, historians suggest that it is more likely that the name existed even before the Industrial Revolution; outcroppings of black coal scarred the surface of the local heath, and the presence of coal so near the surface rendered the local soil very black.</blockquote><br /> <br /> <br /> This is the real reason its the Black Country &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.stephenfry.com/bb-content/plugins//bb-smilies/default/icon_cool.gif&quot; title=&quot;8)&quot; class=&quot;bb_smilies&quot; /&gt; http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake#post-104663 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 17:38:34 +0000 FeiJi Fancier 104663@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ Thus &quot;Nigeria&quot; = &quot;The Black Country&quot;?<br /> <br /> I always thought that was Wolverhampton/Wednesfield/Staffordshire. &lt;img src=&quot;http://www.stephenfry.com/bb-content/plugins//bb-smilies/default/icon_smile.gif&quot; title=&quot;:)&quot; class=&quot;bb_smilies&quot; /&gt; http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake#post-104599 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:36:52 +0000 Porge 104599@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ P.S. The word comes from the latin word 'niger' meaning black. http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake#post-104597 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:22:33 +0000 Porge 104597@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ I see that in my recent blog the name of the dog (Nigger) has been replaced with asterisks. I rest my case......... http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/topic/dambusters-remake#post-104593 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:16:43 +0000 Porge 104593@http://www.stephenfry.com/forum/ I saw this film as a child and also as an adult. The name of Guy Gibson's dog didn't present a problem to me. No normal person would think anything of it. Why do we pander to all this PC nonsense? If these people read problems into the name, let them stay away from the film. It's a historical story and Nigger was not only the dog's name, but also the code word for the operation and as such should not be altered. I'm afraid that there are a certain minority in society who just constantly look for problems. Should the Aussie word &quot;Pom&quot; be removed from historical films or the American word &quot;Limey&quot;? Of course not ! Should I complain because as a child, I was called &quot;Ginger Nut&quot; and &quot;Copper Knob&quot;? What pathetic people they are. Stay true to the original,Stephen and ignore these idiots, in the name of common sense.