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quantumofire


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Posted Fri Oct 9th, 2009 10:28pm Post subject: Art for arts sake?

Recently the top rate of tax in the uk went from 40% to 50% and guess what...Tracey Emin has said that she is considering decamping to France because she's said it is too much.

I was beginning to wonder - any artist who is earning enough to be in the 50% tax band must be on to a good thing. Or am I missing something?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/markkermode/2009/10/whe.....reall.html

Please Tracey Emin fans explain.

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Sat Oct 17th, 2009 4:07am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

This is taken directly from Wikepeedidi: "David Bowie, a childhood inspiration of Emin's, also became friends with the artist, Bowie has described Emin as, William Blake as a woman, written by Mike Leigh[14]" and probably sums up a lot very well.

I don't understand the 50% tax stuff. She's had the luck of having a lot of her artwork bought, so maybe that's why she's in that taxbracket(?), unlike MOST artists LOL

I'm not a fan *exactly*. For everything an artist does show, I wonder what they're hiding. I'm not saying I'm right or fair or good by thinking that way. That she exposes so much and still manages to keep people curious - at least her 'fans' - is kind of interesting to me.

Really? Wow.

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Sat Oct 17th, 2009 4:30am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

My problem with modern art has always been how you define bad from good or indifferent ? With music or literature you can see the craft and the skill. You may not admire the artist entirely but you can see they know what there doing as a musician or writer...but modern art?

That's why I blow hot and cold about Emin, though I understand what she's trying to put across. I find a lot of her work....how can I put it politely....lazy.

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Sat Oct 17th, 2009 4:50am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

"My problem with modern art has always been how you define bad from good or indifferent ?"

Well, the way I look at that is this: there's a lot of art considered 'classic' now that during its time was considered trash. That fact goes wayyyyyy back. So, at the end of the day, 'bad' or 'good' or 'indifferent' are opinions that still, ultimately, lie with the artist and the viewer. IOW, YOUR opinion, your feeling for, or lack thereof, is VALID.

"With music or literature you can see the craft and the skill. You may not admire the artist entirely but you can see they know what there doing as a musician or writer...but modern art?"

Tracey is not an uneducated artist and uses several mediums. Which is true of many artists. Some stick with one medium and that's that. Others need a variety of them to get where they want to get. Not being able to see the skill doesn't necessarily mean it's not there. Take Van Gogh. A lot of people think he couldn't do realism, but he could and very well. But that wasn't HIS vision when he looked at a thing. He had to paint or express what he saw and what he was trying work out at any given time. Why does an artist, who could, for instance, draw your portrait to near photographic realism CHOOSE abstraction or minimamlism or any other -ism? It's basically because they're responding to an impetus in their own head. No two people, looking at the same thing, necessarily see it the same way...maybe one person fixates on the light reflected on the apple while the other sees the apple as an apple and that's that. I dunno..I'm not any kind of academic expert, this is just best as I can explain what I understand, or don't, of things lol

"That's why I blow hot and cold about Emin, though I understand what she's trying to put across. I find a lot of her work....how can I put it politely....lazy."

You're probably not alone, not that that matters to you one whit. And, ultimately, it's not your 'problem', ( for lack of a better word ), if you don't 'get' an artists work. It's theirs. But even if the artist could render common things in a common enough way for say, 98% of the viewers to 'get' it, that wouldn't nullify the reaction of the other 2%. And even among that 98%, there would be differing opinions on what was good or bad about it.

If the artist herself sat down and explained it, you might raise your respect for her effort or education more, but still feel the work itself is subpar compared to her *intent*. And no matter how much your opinion of *her* was raised, you still might not want one scrap of her work. I mean, that's my hella long winded way of saying that your opinion, IMHO, is as valid as anyone else's, whatever you do or don't know, or understand, about an artist.

Really? Wow.

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Sat Oct 17th, 2009 5:28am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

A very thorough dissections of my comments Nitro LOL.

But I still don't understand the idea of anyone becoming artist but saying - I am an artist?

Does money say one is an artist, like the Tate's, Gugenheim's or Satchi's...I need to cogitate further. Or is it about fame...the Shock of the New as once said.

Or is it like Wilde always said - about aesthetics?
That would be to narrow. Perhaps I'm rambling...but it seems that the first to get there with an idea wins the prize.
Perhaps having been around art and the process of artists for many years in the 90s it's made me a little cynical not just about craft but about motivations as well.

Am I rambling...I think art in the past was about taking a medium and rendering it into something different, now a lot of modern art leading on from Duchamps goes from taking something already there changing it around a little and putting a label on it to express a new notion. Duchamps made a statement with the urinal, is it just nobody got the joke?

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Sun Oct 18th, 2009 5:36am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

Sorry Q. Didn't mean for that to come off as any kind of dissection. I didn't use too dull a blade did I?

You and I may have seen simliar things, but in different locations. Had I never seen it for myself, I never would have just arbitrarily believed that there would be a type of person who seemed to posess no talent whatsoever calling themselves an artist, and then getting active in some local art scene to promote themselves as 'artist'. But it happens. Seems like some of it is just another form of social networking but anyway...

Mapplethorpe shocked people and GG Allin certainly did. And many still don't consider either artists of any kind. Me, I'd lean towards Mapplethorpe but maybe I'm too conservative that way.

In spite of what might be called 'wanna-be's, I do think it would be normal for an artist to know they're an artist. That word has a ton of different hangups in it and what type of hangup it is depends on the person using it I guess.

I know a really good landscape artist. But he hits the ceiling if I call him an artist instead of whatever it is he prefers. To me, he's an artist. To himself, he's any negative thing he can come up with so long as it ensures he doesn't think highly of his own talent. So, in this case for example, who's right? Me or him? Or those who buy his work? ( BTW, I really don't mean to be self-referential in choosing this scenario, so much as I am just being lazy right now because it's late ).

Really? Wow.

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Mon Oct 19th, 2009 12:55am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

I hadn't heard of GG Allin in the UK, so I did a bit of browsing...I think I get your point about Allin being on the extreme end. Though it would have interesting to see him live, just the once to get the full experience. It's difficult to know what to make of such extreme people...I guess they occupy their creation - making their own persona/manifesto and living by it.

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Wed Oct 21st, 2009 2:48am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

GG represented the performance artist. "occupy their creation.." is a pretty clean and concise way of putting that I guess

Sometimes discussing what is confusing about 'Art' is like falling down a sort of rabbit hole. I feel the same way about the broad area of 'Philosophy'. I'm slightly brain-dead this way: the more I puzzle over either, the more I realize how little I understand LOL

Really? Wow.

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Wed Oct 21st, 2009 2:59am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

I understand what you mean regarding philosophy, Nitro. I read all about this or that person's ideas...I get it, at that moment. Then, when I put the book down, my mind goes blank and I've forgotten what they were trying to say.

It's like fighting your way out of a sack to find you're in a bigger one, and still in the dark.

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Wed Oct 21st, 2009 3:55am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

Q, exactly!

I knew a guy once who was majoring in Philosophy studies. He could make my eyes cross in around ten minutes LOL

Really? Wow.

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Fri Oct 23rd, 2009 3:15am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

I once remember reading something in a book by Sartre - didn't he say something about everyone having a choice...even when we do nothing, we are making a choice to do nothing?

Mind you, that's all existential to me

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Tue Oct 27th, 2009 12:45am Post subject: Art for arts sake?

LOL!

To make no choice is a decision...something like that...

Philosophy probably attracts people who are amused by puzzling the hell out of other people.

Really? Wow.

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