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SpongyWhale


Member

Posted Mon Sep 28th, 2009 10:48pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

So we put aside nearly a trillion pounds to prop up the banks, take major shares in some of them meaning that we can no longer afford to fund our education or whatever they choose to decimate, yet the chancellor argues that if bonuses are stopped, or wages for bankers cut, we may lose the best bankers. I dont understand how any single bonus can be paid when these companies are using our money and trying desperatley to survive. I want the taxpayers money BACK, and soon. They would re-possess your house if you missed a couple of payments. They get wage rises and backhanders from our childrens piggy banks for losing a million of our jobs, and financially crippling our country. Alistair Darling should be clawing back this money, instead of cutting my daughters education budget and buggering the country's future for her adulthood.

He should also dye his hair black, or his eyebrows white, but this is slighty less infuriating.


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quantumofire


Member

Posted Tue Sep 29th, 2009 4:47pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

It's that vicious cycle...they need the criminals to tell them where all the loot is...then they all get pardoned.

Hie-ho, hie-ho, it's off to debt we go...

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Tue Sep 29th, 2009 5:54pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

Darlings, do we know if Darling, darlings, is striped as one makes one's way southwards from the eybrows?

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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keymaker


Member

Posted Tue Sep 29th, 2009 11:04pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

he chancellor argues that if bonuses are stopped, or wages for bankers cut, we may lose the best bankers.

The argument is bogus, of course, because the best bankers can't be defined as those who lose control of their business. More technically, it fails to take account of the laws of demand and supply which is quite worrying when you consider it's coming from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Legally, it ignores the responsibility of government to eliminate anti-trust extortion by legislation.

km


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quantumofire


Member

Posted Tue Sep 29th, 2009 11:18pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

The problem is there is a lot goobledegook about what these gamblers actually do. It's just about learning how to play the game and how to play bets, like roulette. Wasn't there once a program on tv where they took some complete novices and showed them the ropes and they managed to make a much money as the bankers did. If it was their own money, would they take the risk? Just a bunch of gambling addicts with a bottomless bank balance...not theirs.

Plus half of the banks buying up all this risky debt didn't know what the hell they were buying in the first...I'm sorry, did I miss something about managing you money responsibly....waffle waffle... Anyone wants to go halves on a scratchcard?

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Thu Oct 1st, 2009 5:56pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

Whath bothers me is their attempt to put so much burden on the part of homeowners or customers. These people gamble with equity that you earned and OWN.

The NY Times is keeping a list on their site of every bank here in the states that has taken a government handout ( via the TARP program ). Billions and billions of dollars and more are in line EVERY SINGLE DAY to get their share of it.

It's the investors and board members, and their incalcuable greed, that make bank policy. The CEO's are used to write and implement them. Part of this, particularly recently, also means treating their own lower-tier employees like dog shit. If a busiiness treats their employees like crap, how much better are they going to treat YOU? They're all smiles when you bring your money in. If you notice even a tiny discrepancy between your records and theirs on you money, you are treated like the enemy.

They KNEW they were lending money to many people who were not financially solid enough to handle the debt. They knew it. And they did it anyway, because they all like to buy and sell each others loans. And also because of that aspect of using equity you own to drive their own profits up.

Greed isn't necessarily a bad thing, but greed unchecked certainly is. And here we are.

Really? Wow.

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Thu Oct 1st, 2009 6:35pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

Shame we can't get laws passed in our countries that punish the financial immoralities as heartily as they do the physical; ultimately, they are damaging and degrading to both individuals and society as a whole. The problem lies in the fact that the ones with the power to institute such legislation, are, quel surprise!, often the ones with the snouts deepest in the trough.

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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keymaker


Member

Posted Thu Oct 1st, 2009 8:35pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

They KNEW they were lending money to many people who were not financially solid enough to handle the debt.

What happened there was that taxation was progressively ramped up to an immoral level leaving people with practically none of their own money. They then resorted to borrowing, not for luxuries, but for their everyday needs. Governments ran the system to keep taxation high so as to fund rather silly expenditure that no one in their right mind would ever support with their own money - only with someone else's. The idea was to let bankers get rich to buttress taxation policy but to get away with bosses pocketing £millions in bonuses they had to sedate the financial sector workforce. The system used had two pillars: first, the banks would be allowed to extort money from the people in a hidden tax called 'bank charges' when all other businesses had to operate from profits. Secondly, the workforce would be underpaid in basic salary but given to expect that their income would be supplemented by 'bonuses' which of course signed them up to the general system. The coupe was then complete - the workers received a couple of £grand every Christmas to shut them up while the bankers received a couple of £grand every morning. Meanwhile, the government could continue to take all our money away in ever rising taxes...

km


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SpongyWhale


Member

Posted Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 1:45am Post subject: Bankers bonus

What really gets me, is the talk of the bonuses being based on performance, being spread out over a number of years and having the option to claw them back as a remedy to this situation. I personally think that whilst the little people go without jobs, lose their homes, see degradation of public services and see our country riddled with debt, the banks should pay no bonuses at all and bankers should be happy with a decent wage. The were highly rewarded for causing this mess, we bailed them out and our money should not keep rewarding them.
Me and my family cannot get a mortgage because of this and because of all the repossesions and auctioning of peoples homes to wealthy landlords, our rent is going up-- as house prices fall.

If any bankers want to let me look after a few grand of their money, I will take it to the casino and if I should lose, just pay me your money again until I win and buy me an Aston Martin for trying.


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wildfire


Member

Posted Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 6:17am Post subject: Bankers bonus

The problem is that they could issue a crap mortgage, then resell it as an investment, and it counted as performance. There was an incentive to issue crap mortgages to feed the demand for investments.

The banks have a false definition of productivity. They are rewarding themselves for selling 'financial products', but unlike real products that are measurable - I have sold one thousand cakes, so I have bought one thousand cakesworth of flower, eggs, butter, etc. - the financial products are contracts, and they are worthless if they're made with people who couldn't afford the underlying items.

The fact is that most employment in investment banks is for the short term - the hours are unreasonably long and punishing and the people are treated as disposable assets. Under these circumstances, the only reason to do it is to capture as much money as possible, for as long as it's possible to hold on to the rollercoaster - and then get out and do something different. If the majority staff are graduates who are not interested in the future of the organization beyond the short to medium term, and view it as an exercise in money grabbing until they want to set up a family, etc, it's no wonder that the wheels fell off.


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davemalley


Member

Posted Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 9:43am Post subject: Bankers bonus

at least dick turpin had the courtesy to hide his face when he robbed people.
i have been told by my bank (halifax) upon every visit in the last few months, that my current account is very old and i must take out a new one, but the new one which they say comes into effect from dec this year seems a rip off, can they make me change accounts?
the new account has a monthly charge of £12.50 (from me to them not them to me!) and the overdraft charges are appalling.
£5 a day if unauthorised
£2 a day if agreed over £2500
£1 a day for over £300
£35 for a bounced check (up to 3x a day daily)
etc etc
can they make me take this account, i didnt agree to pay them £12.50 a month for them to use my cash to gamble with when i opened the account.

or am i just really out of touch and this is standard practise

people on low incomes are soon going to be in the position where they cant afford to use a bank, i wonder if i could demand my salary in cash from now on, bet they would have kittens lmao

people who use P.S are just showing they havent put enough thought into their writing before they started.

P.S cant get out of the habit myself

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keymaker


Member

Posted Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 8:12pm Post subject: Bankers bonus

i have been told by my bank (halifax) upon every visit in the last few months, that my current account is very old and i must take out a new one, but the new one which they say comes into effect from dec this year seems a rip off, can they make me change accounts? the new account has a monthly charge of £12.50

Send 'em an email asking what clause they're relying on in changing the account.

km


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davemalley


Member

Posted Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 8:20am Post subject: Bankers bonus

km,
thanks for that, will see what they say.

people who use P.S are just showing they havent put enough thought into their writing before they started.

P.S cant get out of the habit myself

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Nitro


Member

Posted Mon Oct 5th, 2009 4:56am Post subject: Bankers bonus

Adding new charges to switch over accounts sure sounds like a "See? We're going to make sure we only deal with creditable customers. See? Now everyone can ignore how we loaned money to people who couldn't afford it. We'll just make sure only the Haves can bank here. Let the Have Nots worry for themselves. They probably did it to themselves anyway blah blah...". I'm only speculating but most banks now know everyone's aware they were lending money to people who couldn't pay it back and the lending contracts set up in such a manner to nearly ensure it.

So, pass the guilt and banks do that doing what they do best. Not unlike the buck

Several bank execs here walked away from the businesses they drove into the dirt with millions of dollars in 'separation salaries'. Which really added salt to the wounds of the public.

"Oh? You mean he gets paid MILLIONS of dollars for doing a bad job? Wow. The rest of us just get the axe and the boot in the backside."

More and more the message sent from the top down, particularly to young 'uns, is that being successful in business and politics means being highly unethical, sociopathicly self-serving, dispassion for the fallout, and otherwise without conscience or compassion towards clients and their own employees ( in banking, i'm talking about tellers..not ceo's...most bank tellers these days are not happy folk ).

The exact traits we accuse the drug dealers of having who pull kids in with fast money and nice cars. Why go to college? There's no jobs after. Why work my ass off? My dad did and he got fired for it. None of those people at his work care that we're losing our home. And they just went and hired six Malaysians to replace him because they'll take a lot less money."

There are whole segments of our youth culture here that believe exactly that. Any money they make in crime, they don't pay to the IRS because they don't pay taxes. They make their money and it's their money. College is a joke because you have accrue hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans to get through it with no guarantee you'll get hired. Then you have all that 'bunk' hanging over your head. But if I go out and sell seven pounds of weed, I can more than make my rent and pay for my car. More and more they see themselves cut off from any 'american dream' - particularly inner city and very rural youth - the dream doesn't represent them at all and the adults all seem to be gang banging except in suits and ties and on the 30th floor of office buildings.

Kids have really great bullshit detectors. Ask any parent Mess up and let them catch you in the act of hiding it, or talking at them sideways, and they'll catch you up on it. Well, inner city youth are even better at that.

The adult world is losing the ability to hold the higher moral ground every day. Parents smoking pot with their teens, letting them go when and wherever they wish ( the "I'll be my kids friend" syndrome when it should be I am my kids Parent and sometimes that means making hard decisions )

Anytime the moral high ground is assaulted and crumbles apart in a stinking hypocritical mess, the younger gen is going to see the older as being far less credible when they speak about ethics or the importance of this or that issue.

way to ernie madoff....way to go GM...way to go banks everywhere...way to go mortgage lenders...way to go politicians who defend this shit or are participating in protecting them...

it's a sickening subject for everyone...i can see a future model of home living where several couples with children buy homes together, with plenty of space for everyone, and chip in all together to keep it going...

oh wait...that's a commune...

cool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_HtYcmHpEM

Really? Wow.

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worriedcanary


Member

Posted Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:25am Post subject: Bankers bonus

I was horrified by the bankers bonuses but after a while I must admit to approving of a performance based bonus. If they make multi millions why not let them have a percentage of their profits. Obviously, this should be set against the possibility of them making huge losses. In this eventuality, they must be dismissed without a pension. Perhaps this or a slightly watered down version might deter the high risk investing of the past.


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