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Nitro


Member

Posted Wed May 20th, 2009 4:22am Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
Dammit this pisses me off! And this is the vent place so I'm venting about it.

The illustrious state I live in, that has been built primarily on tobacco money, decided today and signed in by our governor ( the bleeping beeyotch! ) to ban smoking from all restaurants and bars.

When the fucking government can tell a private business who their customers can and cannot be, it really smacks so much of Big Brother facism. Now the restaurant owners have to toss all ashtrays and put up 'no smoking' signs everywhere and tell anyone who lights up to snuff it or get out.

Why? Because a bunch of non-smoking do-gooders intent on witch hunting smokers and inflicting their personal choice NOT to smoke on everyone else. That includes cigar smokers and pipe smokers btw.

Well, your big fat ass and two gallons of cheap cologne are bad for MY health. Seeing and smelling you irritates my nose and my eyes. Henceforth, I ban all who are like this X-D

Trust me on this: If the government can figure out a way to bust through your front door and put its jackboot on your neck without getting shot or taken to court, they'll do it. All you have to do is lie down for it.

I was in tons of restaurants as a kid where smokers lit up everywhere. I don't have lung cancer nor emphysema nor COPD nor any of the like. The pseudo-science of second hand smoke is so thin it makes me ralph when people attribute logic to it. Both my parents smoked and most of my relatives. None of have died of any tobacco related causes nor did they 'inflict' any on me via their smoke.

It is particulary ironic in this state. Most of the universities and hospitals were built mostly with tobacco money. Now they have banned smoking on these campuses as well.

"Tobacco's and addiction and we're gonna break you of it." Really? Seriously?

How about we make drinking alcohol illegal too. Now there's a product that has directly contributed to the deaths of many.
How about we ban sugar? And corn syrup? Many claim both are addictive. One only has to look at the mass amounts of products with them as ingredients.


It's bullshit. All of it. The government as Parent. Someone takes on all the risks of opening a business for the public to be leisure in, the state and federal government accrue taxes from this business, the business employs people and then the government comes in and tells them how everyone shall behave. Um....right...So, will they compensate the business owners financially when they suffer a loss of clientele? Surely they'll step in for the employees that now can no longer be afforded and have to pursue unemployment benefits.

All because of some smokers? Geezus H. Christo...people, really, come on...let the business owners attract the public they wish to. It's not toddlers sitting around smoking, but legal adults. If you don't like the restaurant because there's smokers in there, go the fuck somewhere else!!

Really? Wow.

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exoskeleton


Member

Posted Wed May 20th, 2009 6:09am Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
I appreciate that this is a rant so I'm not going to dissect or anything, don't worry.

my state has had a smoking ban of that nature for a number of years now, probably five or six. (looked it up, it was six.)
one of the issues with it was determining exactly what constitutes a restaurant/bar, because there are lots of places selling food in an organized way, but they claim they are primarily for other things (like bingo.)

I really don't know what the longterm effects have been though (or will be, because six years isn't that long.)

sockdolager.

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gadgetgirl


Member

Posted Wed May 20th, 2009 10:02am Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
I know its a rant and I have some sympathy, in that I think the smoking bans went too far (at least in the UK). I have no problem with designated rooms for smoking or some bars having smoking and giving us the consumer the option. Isn't that what competition is for?

However, my grandfather and godfather both died of lung cancer and it is a horrible horrible disease. They were massive smokers. Please don't think that just because your family has so far dodged that bullet it means there is no truth in the link at all. But, I do believe it is down to personal choice at the end of the day.

That would be me.

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Wed May 20th, 2009 11:46pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
On a news site (damned if I can rmember which one) there's a pub in Briatain that gets round the ban by calling one room a "smoking research facility". If you want to go in and light up, you have to fill in a questionnaire, that's all. The local council is trying to get it stopped, but I think if it's down to the actual letter of the law, I think they're going to lose. Which would be nice. The licensee is actually a non smoker, but she doesn't like safety nazis either.

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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TobiasMonk


Moderator

Posted Wed May 20th, 2009 11:49pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!

However, my grandfather and godfather both died of lung cancer and it is a horrible horrible disease. They were massive smokers. Please don't think that just because your family has so far dodged that bullet it means there is no truth in the link at all. But, I do believe it is down to personal choice at the end of the day.

My father-in-law has been a heavy smoker most of his life, and he now has end stage lung cancer. I take your point about the legislation and the hypocrisy of it, but everything I've ever read says how dangerous second hand smoke is. Have you read something different and would you mind sharing?

I cannot be awake for nothing looks to me as it did before, Or else I am awake for the first time, and all before has been a mean sleep.
Walt Whitman

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Wed May 20th, 2009 11:53pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
On a personal note, I can go places now and not get home smelling like a kipper.

And a small benefit that nobody's talked about - businesses only have to paint their ceilings white half as often, so they're cheaper to run.

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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gadgetgirl


Member

Posted Thu May 21st, 2009 12:02am Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!

However, my grandfather and godfather both died of lung cancer and it is a horrible horrible disease. They were massive smokers. Please don't think that just because your family has so far dodged that bullet it means there is no truth in the link at all. But, I do believe it is down to personal choice at the end of the day.

My father-in-law has been a heavy smoker most of his life, and he now has end stage lung cancer. I take your point about the legislation and the hypocrisy of it, but everything I've ever read says how dangerous second hand smoke is. Have you read something different and would you mind sharing?

I'm a bit confused Toby, as I was saying there was I link or so I thought (I know sometimes I don't express myself well, sorry). I've certainly not read anything different about second hand smoke or first hand smoke. However, I did for years go into very smoky pubs knowing about the risks and ignored it.

That would be me.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Thu May 21st, 2009 5:13am Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!


My father-in-law has been a heavy smoker most of his life, and he now has end stage lung cancer. I take your point about the legislation and the hypocrisy of it, but everything I've ever read says how dangerous second hand smoke is. Have you read something different and would you mind sharing?

Sure: here's one link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic.....01158.html

here's another: http://www.sepp.org/Archive/reality/pseudosci.html

and another: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:D8Br4m0-RbQJ:w.....=firefox-a

We all take risks pursuing the indulgences we like. Part of Life is accepting that some people are more interested in quality of life versus quantity.

Neither nagging nor making laws to punish smokers ( raising taxes on cigs aka 'sin taxes' or banning them from restaurants that their patronage helped build ) is not the answer and when we invite the government to come in and play mom and dad to tell us what we can and cannot eat, drink, or smoke might free some individuals from the responsibility of their choices and the outcomes of them, but not all of us wish to release that free will choice, that control of the autonomous person we are and hand it over in some blind faith that the government knows what's best for us.

You don't like smoking? The answer is too to even have to say it to another thinking adult but here it is: GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. If a restaurant has established that they are fine with smoking patrons, then don't go to that restaurant. Go to the one that doesn't allow them so you breathe the air of non-smokers.

The smoker knows, thanks to the warning stamped on every pack, that they are risking their health. But they've weighed the pleasure against that risk and have decided to take it. That's THEIR choice. And, it's not an illegal one. ( Though if this sick attempt to sanitize every city continues on, I'm sure an outright ban will come down and cigarettes and cigars and pipes will be made illegal. Hello Tobacco Prohibition. Well, we know that didn't work with alcohol. It won't work with tobacco. And it definently hasn't had a serious impact on marijuana. )

What's next? Signs that say,"Sorry, we're not allowed to serve the obese or overweight." because the government has determined that your life choices are not good for you and determined to keep you from yourself. Maybe at checkout at the grocery store you'll find additional taxes have been added to the food stuffs that the fat person is attempting to buy. And they'll say the increased taxes on you are to support the health system that fat people tend to strain due to all those heart attacks, heart surgeries, rehabilition and physical therapy, etcetcetc..

I'd rather smoke and take my own risks thank you very much. Living till I'm 150 means way less to me than croaking at 75 from some disease. You gotta die of something. Before then, I want to enjoy myself as I can. And right now, I enjoy smoking cigarettes and being able to smoke in a restaurant. This issue was a non-issue for decades and decades until some granola eating, gotta-change-the-world neo-hippies decided that THEIR thinking and THEIR lifestyle was better and set out to make the world and all its businesses in their image.

Most of the studies used by WHO or the EPA are sloppy studies and have to assume a lot of things into their formulating and theorizing that cannot be statically substantiated. So the results are skewed with an agenda in mind to begin with. Ignoring the psuedo-science in favor of the spin, it's the spin what's got reported on the airwaves and magazines and all else...utter cack. And people read it but they don't read it with any critical thinking. They just see some statistics and say,"Oh, they must be right." without ever asking,"Where did those statistics come from and what statistical method did they use? And these agencies know the average reader WON'T ask those questions. They'll just swallow it all as 'truth'. No matter how flimsy that 'truth' really is.

But hey, ya'll keep on trying to legislate morality. I'll be sitting in the back of the room smoking and occasionally giggling while I watch everyone stumble in the dark X-D

Really? Wow.

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TobiasMonk


Moderator

Posted Thu May 21st, 2009 7:33pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
I'm a bit confused Toby...


No, mea culpa, the confusion was all mine. I meant to quote Nitro, sorry G!

I cannot be awake for nothing looks to me as it did before, Or else I am awake for the first time, and all before has been a mean sleep.
Walt Whitman

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TobiasMonk


Moderator

Posted Thu May 21st, 2009 9:11pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
But hey, ya'll keep on trying to legislate morality. I'll be sitting in the back of the room smoking and occasionally giggling while I watch everyone stumble in the dark X-D

Well, I don't believe it's something which needs legislative policing, so I have 2 words for y'all:

COURTESY and VENTILATION

Smoking and non smoking sections don't hurt either, what happened to those? We were eating dinner at a place in New Orleans a while back which had smoking and non smoking sections, and I remember watching a guy across the room smoke his cigar between mouthfuls of a big 'ol steak.....he sure enjoyed it too. X-D

I cannot be awake for nothing looks to me as it did before, Or else I am awake for the first time, and all before has been a mean sleep.
Walt Whitman

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Nitro


Member

Posted Fri May 22nd, 2009 2:01am Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
Some of my venting here in The Zero Room is serious and some is tongue-in-cheek. I hope it's understood I am NOT purporting that smoking is healthy. But I am putting it out there that it's a really bad idea for any populus to take it for granted that government knows best and we have to be very careful about allowing it to infringe on our personal space and choices because there ARE groups out there that very seriously believe they should be able to legislate what you eat, what you drink, what you smoke and who you have sex with. Even HOW you have sex. That bothers me way, way more than someone at the end of the bar stoking a big, fat cigar.

Really? Wow.

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sheepchrist


Member

Posted Sun May 24th, 2009 11:03pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
The UK has definitely gone too far and those from other countries need to see whets coming.

"A ban on lighting up in all public places"

The UK answers the passive smoking argument for non smokers and for employees of establishments which allowed smoking. Now I don’t know enough about the truth off passive smoking affects on non smokers but it seems to me that many substances can have and affect on family and others around - alcohol for instance.

I think the UK missed the boat on this one and if they felt so strongly they should have went down the road of licensing allowing everyone to choose.

Smoking and non-smoking bars clubs and restaurants seem to be a more sensible human way to go.

One crazy effect - health visitors in a certain area are refusing to support a seriously disabled person in their own home because they smoke in it - these workers now have that right,

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Mon May 25th, 2009 12:39pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to say, as a smoker, I agree with the ban here in the UK, I never smoked in a restaurant even if it was allowed. I can go outside and smoke after my meal, which is what I did before the ban anyway.

Though, this is the bit that REALLY angered me, I had an appt at my house a few weeks ago and during this hour long appt I went to have a cigarette out of the window, let me stress this was my own home, and was promptly told I was not allowed to smoke as this, my home, was their working environment, now if I had been in an office or even just lighting up in front of them in a confined space I wouldn't of got annoyed but I was leaning out the bloody window.

I also think that if its fair to ban smoking in public places because of the damage it can do to others and to the person themselves, then really they should ban drinking alcohol as well.

Also one thing I've always wondered is, does the huge amount of tax revenue they get from cigarette sales get put straight into the NHS, if not it should, then the smoker is paying for the health care they might need in the future rather than someone's housekeeper, floating island or moat cleaning etc.

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Mon May 25th, 2009 5:58pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!
I have seen that there are different brands of "care workers". Some are people who care and take the job on to do good in the world. Others are just wage slaves who thought they'd got a cushy number and don't want to give any more to the job than they absolutely have to.


Guess which sort you got

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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elTweeno


Member

Posted Mon May 25th, 2009 9:13pm Post subject: Blankety blanking smoking ban laws!!!!!!!!!!

Though, this is the bit that REALLY angered me, I had an appt at my house a few weeks ago and during this hour long appt I went to have a cigarette out of the window, let me stress this was my own home, and was promptly told I was not allowed to smoke as this, my home, was their working environment, now if I had been in an office or even just lighting up in front of them in a confined space I wouldn't of got annoyed but I was leaning out the bloody window.

I have this right when I'm doing outreach work - and I would never use it. As far as I'm concerned, it's that person's home, they can do as they wish - especially if they're being considerate enough to smoke out of the window!

I do, however, work with people who would demand the people they're working with stop smoking while they're in the house. These people truly irritate me, not least because they've yet to come up with a good reason why - for that half hour or whatever - they have the right to stop someone (who is probably fairly nervous or stressed) from smoking in their own home.

I get that passive-smoking is dangerous, but why not just politely request that the person opens the window before lighting up? I'm sure they wouldn't mind - in fact, they'd more than likely prefer this approach to being outrightly told 'no'.

eT

I'm also on Twitter: elTweeno (of course!)

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