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Gayalondiel


Member

Posted Fri Nov 21st, 2008 10:37pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
Nice to find likeminded people

Incidentally the quotation was Edmund Burke:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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Catt_H


Member

Posted Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 4:21pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
The very existence of the BNP is an infringement of people's rights in my opinion.
Racists shouldnt be given a viable outlet for their prejudices! They should be educated!

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Gayalondiel


Member

Posted Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 5:44pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
The very existence of the BNP is an infringement of people's rights in my opinion.
Racists shouldnt be given a viable outlet for their prejudices! They should be educated!

Do you not see that your statement is in itself prejudiced against someone else's mode of beliefs? How does saying "I am right and you should be educated until you agree with me," differ from their own attitudes?

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joan


Member

Posted Sat Nov 22nd, 2008 11:50pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
We seem to be divided into two categories: give them no air, or give them all the air they need, then watch them carefully.

I'm honestly not sure any more, which is best. After all, they put Hitler in prison, then look what happened after he got out. They let the Ayatollah back into Iran in the late 70s, then look what happened. In both cases, evil views were given the freedom to become entrenched in the populations, leaving free thinkers in grave danger.

When our own far-right racist rose out of the mire to influence so many people (Pauline Hanson) i was there in all the demos, writing letters to the editors, joining anti-racist groups. This stuff worked - she never got another political seat, but she gave oxygen to those horrible views that were almost dead, and 12 years after she won a federal seat, we are still not back to where we were.

We have laws against crime, but not against all forms of evil.

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Soupy Twist


Member

Posted Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 8:32am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
We seem to be divided into two categories: give them no air, or give them all the air they need, then watch them carefully.
Twice no. Let them the air they have a right to have. And I don't just watch them. I use everything legally possible to attack them - letters to the editor, anti-demonstrations, information. Nothing is more detrimental to the 'liberal' cause than a right wing party legally in the right and the liberals in the wrong. We could have been rid of the blasted NPD if our constitution protection hadn't seen it necessary to infiltrate them with their own men who weren't just silently watching but tinkering with the party's programme until it fit the "anti-constitutional" accusation. In the end, the constitution protection stood there like idiots looking stupid, and the NPD got off as those who were treated illegaly and unfairly. Oh bravo. If they had done nothing and let the Constitutional Court make their decision 'unaided', the NPD scum would have fallen into their own sword soon enough.

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Maren


Member

Posted Sun Nov 23rd, 2008 2:59pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
Do you not see that your statement is in itself prejudiced against someone else's mode of beliefs?

Do you really think "prejudiced" is the right word? When I read about or listen to members of the right wing NPD here in Germany I'm not "prejudiced" to say that what they say is beyond the pale. Apart from all their racist and other imbecilities they claim to combat the political system of germany.

I really don't think that this political system have to support a party who will destroy exactly this system. That wouldn't be protection of freedom of opinion - that would be major dullness.
I think the point is not that opposers of right wing radicalism say "I am right and you should be educated until you agree with me" but that they say "stop offending and harming other people and stop violating democracy".

By the way - here in Germany it's illegal to use or spread national socialist symbols or slogans.
I really don't thinkt that this is an unacceptable restriction of freedom of opinion. If we accept every bullshit we don't make society better. We make it worse for a lot of innocent people who may be scared and harmed by racists.

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Gayalondiel


Member

Posted Mon Nov 24th, 2008 9:43am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
Do you not see that your statement is in itself prejudiced against someone else's mode of beliefs?

Do you really think "prejudiced" is the right word? When I read about or listen to members of the right wing NPD here in Germany I'm not "prejudiced" to say that what they say is beyond the pale. Apart from all their racist and other imbecilities they claim to combat the political system of germany.


Yes, I do. I'm not suggesting that I support the BNP, or what they stand for - as I've repeated ad nauseum, I'm liberal.

I do however take exception to the phrase "they should be educated" applied in blanket form to the BNP. The few people I know who are members are extremely well-educated and well-considered people. IMO they have considered and reached the wrong conclusion, and I take every opportunity I can handle to debate the issues with them, but the implications that (a) they are either idiotic, ignorant or misinformed and (b) we should just sit them down and tell them what we believe over and over again until they believe it too, yes, I call prejudiced.

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Mr Scaley


Member

Posted Tue Nov 25th, 2008 10:15am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
So if we're going to be "Liberals"we have to give the BNP and its ilk plenty of rope.....lets hope they do the right thing with it.

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 3:44pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
I'm in favour of letting the BNP (Baboons Nastily Prejudiced) be heard; as well as their voices, it lets us hear their knuckles dragging on the floor.

We applaud and defend an MP for revealing items in the public interest at the expense of his liberty (OK, 9hrs was it? Not a lot, but you get the idea). Perhaps the "traitor" should be arrested. Have they been? I don't know, but I still applaud them for revealing facts that are in the public interest.

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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joan


Member

Posted Wed Dec 3rd, 2008 6:04am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
I've always thought of them as 'Bloody Nasty People', but I bet many of us have our own takes on their initials. 'Below Normal Parameters' is another

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Flossy


Member

Posted Sat Dec 6th, 2008 1:07am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
I'm with Joan on this!

Scum, Scum and more Scum! The BNP are racists and extremely dangerous. Dangerous to you the Liberal, dangerous to you the Tory and, of course, dangerous to all those people who just happen to be a different colour to them. They represent everything that is ignorant, irrational and reactionary. They advocate (even if it is behind close doors) violence towards those they would see hounded from their communities and their country for being "Foreign" or just "not like them!". If they come to power none of you would be able to sleep without fear of being dragged from your beds at night. To allow them democratic freedoms is the equivalent to putting your head into the mouth of a lion. They should not be allowed to teach our children or look after our elderly or vulnerable people. They should not be allowed to give advice or guidance to people through any public service. They should not be allowed to be Police Officers or take any role of authority. All Trades Unions should expel them and drive them out of their organisations whilst exposing them for what they are and thankfully all the major unions have policies to that effect.

If anyone has any doubts about what we are talking about just look at the record of Fascism through the years. In Nazi Germany, obviously, but also Chile in 1973, where, sadly, the CIA backed Pinochet in the overthrow of a democratically elected govt. The thousands who went missing, the torture of Socialists and Communists and ordinary working people. The Surhato regime in the Philippines in the 60's, again backed by the CIA, saw the murder of 500,000 Socialists, Communists and youth by bands of butchers dressed in military garb. Only a couple of examples!

The reason I mention Socialists and Communists is that Fascism is a reaction to the revolutionary movement of the working class. It is traditionally backed by very wealthy businessmen who see the threat from "Communism" as was manifest in the 20's and 30's in Germany, Again in Chile and in the Philippines Fascism was used to crush the resistance of the Workers movement. So, Fascism is a manifestation of the desperation of capitalism. They will back whoever can save their system. If the Fascists maintain the rule of big business they will have their support. This is no stab in the dark here. The link between the big corporations and the German Nazi party is well documented as is the well understood link between the ruling elite in Chile and the Philippines and the Church elders and their link with US imperialism.

Today the BNP appear to be on the rise in the UK because the Labour Party has not solved the problems of working people, and indeed have made things a lot worse, and the BNP are stepping into the vacuum that is being left. Their public language even smacks of workers solidarity etc. On a You Tube pick, a BNP woman can be heard talking about how her dad, a staunch trade’s unionist, used to stand on the picket lines and defend his fellow members and fight for our rights. If you took away the BNP banners you might think that it was a real TU picket. This is the deception they use and it has to be seen for what it is. In relative terms however, the BNP are still small and ineffective, but be under no illusions as to the potential dangers.

So, keep the BNP at arms reach, thanks to whoever released the list so we can keep an eye on them, and keep them out of our unions and public services.

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acidcat


Member

Posted Sat Dec 6th, 2008 10:16am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
We seem to be divided into two categories: give them no air, or give them all the air they need, then watch them carefully.
Twice no. Let them the air they have a right to have. And I don't just watch them.

This is interesting. How much air do they have a right to have?

I'd argue the "legal" argument isn't a good one, as laws can be extremely immoral, and moral acts can be illegal.

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keymaker


Member

Posted Sun Dec 14th, 2008 11:27am Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
So the BNP now want to use the European legislation...
hehe I take your point although Blair enabled it by forcing the Human Rights Act 1998 through Parliament - which was a great shot in the arm for Cheri's practice of course. :smirk:

Yeah, I mean to be honest I'm more worried about extremism in government than in small parties like the BNP whose positions are often quite moderate compared to those of the main parties. It has asserted the conventional wisdom for example that foreign wars should only be fought in defence of the realm whereas the main parties want to go around bombing everyone as if we didn't have to pay for it. So like most of us the BNP was opposed to the invasion of Iraq for example when for some reason the Labour government and Tory opposition were both in favour even though it was illegal in international law.

The main point however has already been made that while there's equality before the law BNP members do no wrong in insisting upon their constitutional rights such as freedom of association, freedom of thought and freedom of expression.

km

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Sun Dec 14th, 2008 9:46pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
The main point however has already been made that while there's equality before the law BNP members do no wrong in insisting upon their constitutional rights such as freedom of association, freedom of thought and freedom of expression. km

Take a look at the expressions, people win prizes for gurning like that, and surely "freedom of thought" is a misprint? I thought they had freedom from thought?

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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keymaker


Member

Posted Sun Dec 14th, 2008 10:30pm Post subject: BNP citing infringement of human rights
"freedom of thought" is a misprint?

Hope not... it comes from the Human Rights Act 1998 specifically Art 9 European Convention on Human Rights.

I thought they had freedom from thought?
That as well but of course such a freedom is more serious when exercised by those with the arse-widening powers of government.

km

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