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Nitro


Member

Posted Tue Jun 9th, 2009 5:11am Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
Part of this is inspired by reading the threads about the BNP and Parliment elections, and someone else suggesting a 'protest' type of vote to the Green Party ( ?).

It reminds me too of how many American voters have come to think of their votes. Our system always boils down to two choices: Republican or Democrat. Yes, there are independents and such but, ultimately, folks vote one or the other or don't vote at all ( generally speaking ). And because everything's gone digital, there's no ability, last I saw, to write in your dogs name X-D

What winds up happening is people are voting, often, AGAINST some ideas/person rather than FOR. For example, I've spoken with many Repubs who were really, really disappointed McCain got thrown up in the primary and they didn't really support him but also were AGAINST Obama and his ideas.

The system gets sick this way, IMHO. And I think in order for it to be healed it's going to require - and I mean literally REQUIRE - citizens to become much more pro-actively engaged in their respective parties and civics in general. What we have now is a ton of people, and I'm guilty of this as anyone, taking a kind of 'wait and see' passive stance and then sort of being resigned to the 'either/or' situation.

I'm not talking about voters running for votes themselves, but rather deciding on becoming active with whatever political group they most identify with and then sacrificing the free time and effort to go to meetings to let their voices be heard.

I have a friend who refused to vote because his reasoning was this:
"Neither of the candidates are people I want to vote for. So instead of voting AGAINST a potential 'bad' guy in favor of one who smiles more, I'm keeping my vote." Someone accused him of 'throwing his vote away' by not voting but I don't agree. It's your vote. Do, or not do, what you wish with it.

Everythings rushing towards some direction that's too obscure from here to see but I think the closer it gets the more turmoil in society from the bottom up - versus the top down - we're going to see. Citizens in general might get tired of standing by and feeling like they're voting indirectly instead of directly and as a result start all kinds of grassroots movements and public gatherings and such.

At least I hope so..mwah hahahahaha <----j/k

Please insert your own opinions/predictions/thoughts as you like

Really? Wow.

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michael


Member

Posted Tue Jun 9th, 2009 4:07pm Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
the mathematics involved in our U.S. elections may be VERY different from those in the UK...protest votes for 3d party create different scenarios than those with 2.
same general thinking going on tho

I'm not great at math but this book explained how some of our close presidential elections happened, what happens when we have a substantial 3rd party candidate, and what could be done to make things more sensible.

it's a great thing to look into. a very objective approach to voting and all the ways/reasons people vote (including protest votes)

http://www.amazon.com/Chaotic-Elections-Mathematic.....gy_b_img_b

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

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PamJH


Member

Posted Tue Jun 9th, 2009 4:40pm Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
What I'd like to see (but money talks, so we won't) is equal time for third-party candidates. Unless you have time to dig and dig on your own, you don't usually get to read about or hear about these candidates' platforms. I generally vote in a liberal fashion in national elections, but mix it up a lot more in local and state elections. But all of these candidates belong to just two parties. Doesn't make for much diversity of opinion, does it?

I try to vote in every election I can (but I just missed the millage renewal election here in town, darn it), but in the races in which I feel ill-informed, I don't cast a vote at all.

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monochromeprincess


Member

Posted Tue Jun 9th, 2009 6:57pm Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
It is different in the UK, yeah. So it's not a case always of just who gets into power, it's a case of seats, too. And so we can vote in elections like the local European elections and vote for a third (or fourth or fifth party) and that will actually do something, as sadly we have seen, with UKIP and BNP MEPs elected. They're in now, and they will actually be representing some of us. It's not so much a case of who's in and who's not, because power is shared (apart from the main party who is in parliament at any given time). So for example, the UK has a Labour government in at the moment, but I could have a Lib Dem councillor in my local authority, and have a Conservative MEP represent the area I am in in Europe. Because all of these elections (national, local, and local European) all happen at different times, often the results will be different because of different trends in voting, and it seems like we have an awful lot of floating voters here. Like, a stupid amount. Which is how UKIP has come second in our local European elections. Somehow.

What I want is people to know for certain what they are voting for. The only way I can rationalise the way people voted in these elections is to conclude that people are 1) actually, genuinely racist or have near-racist beliefs, or 2) they were unclear as to what they were actually voting for when they voted UKIP or BNP. The problem is that Nick Griffin can hide behind abstract, pleasing language (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04QolIvfQEw ) to create the BNP image but then do whatever the hell he wants when he's in power. That's the problem with these fringe parties - is that they've never been voted in before so they have no track record of what they're like in power to judge them by. With Labour, Tory and Lib Dem, we know, however much we may not like them at any one time, that they have central core values by which we know them and to a certain extent can predict what they will do and in what way. And I think our country and our counties are too precious to give people like Nick Griffin a way to prove themselves. I just hope the damage he and his cohorts do can be undone.

mp xxxx

@dreamingshadow

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TobiasMonk


Moderator

Posted Tue Jun 9th, 2009 7:24pm Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
Next year we'll have a biggish election again for Governor, and I'm pretty sure there will be 3 parties on the ballot. The Libertarians in this state have made a substantial enough dent in the numbers these last few years to get themselves on the ballot, which is good because it shows that it can be done.

I like having the option to write in a candidate, which I strongly considered doing for Hillary Clinton last November, though I ended up voting for Obama because I knew that a "write in" vote would have been the equivalent of a "throw away" vote , which in turn would have been almost like voting for Bush. Pfft.

I cannot be awake for nothing looks to me as it did before, Or else I am awake for the first time, and all before has been a mean sleep.
Walt Whitman

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Wed Jun 10th, 2009 8:55pm Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
Sometimes a vote is there so you can reduce the harm the least desirable party from your point of view does, and if that's tactical, fine. It's still using your vote constructively.

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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PamJH


Member

Posted Wed Jun 10th, 2009 8:58pm Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
Sometimes a vote is there so you can reduce the harm the least desirable party from your point of view does, and if that's tactical, fine. It's still using your vote constructively.

Yes, voting tactics. A friend and I did this once in order to keep George W. Bush from winning the Republican primary in Michigan. We voted for John McCain who was a lot different earlier in his career. Victory was sweet.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Thu Jun 11th, 2009 4:33am Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
Anyone remember Ross Perot? He got 19% of the vote at that time.

I do think the Libertarian party will gain strength through the years. There are a ton of disgruntled oliphants and donkey peeps X-D

It's been said that George Bush was the greatest thing to happen for the Democrats in a long time. I even heard one Repub, forget his name, sorry, who said that Bush did more damage to the agenda of their party than anyone ever could and as a result, it would be a long time before we see another repub prezzydent.

Anyway, each person in this country ( USA ) of legal voting age and who can legally vote ( I think some ex-cons lose their rights to vote ) has the right to use or not use their vote as they see fit. I don't believe in answers like,"If I don't vote for someone I don't really like but I think is less bad than the other one, then I'm throwing my vote away." It's too passive an argument for me to buy. Sorry X-D That's just ME though...I think each voter owes it to themselves to use their votes to reflect in some way the thing they REALLY want. If you don't really want to vote for someone, it just doesn't seem logical to me to vote for them just because you like some other politician less. I hear that "It's the lesser of two evils" bullshit all the time. The suspicious part of me can't help but wonder if that very mindset has been groomed in some manner by those 'in power' over the years. There are plenty of polls, and take their results as you will, that reflect that a whole lot of people DO wish there were alternatives to repubs and dems. So, maybe it's the perfect breeding ground now for the LIbs to come into their own.

I guess we'll see

Really? Wow.

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gjhsu


Moderator

Posted Thu Jun 11th, 2009 5:35am Post subject: Do you vote the way you REALLY want to?
I vote on issues, not party lines, and if I don't know who the candidates are for the position, I leave it blank.

If you choose not to vote, then I think you lose the right to bitch about anything that's gone wrong. You always have the right to write in a vote, so vote for yourself if you think you can do a better job than whoever is on the ballot. Show up. Participate.

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