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WhyGenTom


Member

Posted Tue Jun 3rd, 2008 11:04pm Post subject: Holocaust
I've gone back to my depressive ready, moping through Wiki pages to pick up odd facts about odd things and I strumbled upon the holocaust, as you do.

Reading that so so many Poles, Jews and such died. And also atleast 5,000 Jehovas Witnesses... although having met too many, I've had that same urge. All joking aside I also read that the allied forces knew about the concentration camps and rather than immediately intervene, they targetted 'other priorities', Switzerland even shut its borders into Germany to prevent jews seeking asylum. Also the Vatican, the Pope and the likes DIDN'T come to the defence of the prisoners.

This was a clearly demented sadistic set of human beings, the Axis, who wanted to 'cleanse the world' of the mentally ill, and those deemed to be 'wrong'. On paper doesn't seem such a bad idea, perhaps the Allies agreed. Barbaric I thought...

Until eventually linking onto the Iraq war, 2003 onwards. A war where a media pronounced "evil" dictator was taken from power and replaced with anarchy. Innocent people killed, starved and left homeless by an illegal war that was started on the basis that Iraq had oil.
North Korea has no oil... and has nuked... and is destroying its own country by not allowing civilians to leave, leaving them without basic needs such as food, shelter, money, water etc. All the great powers seem perfectly happy to overlook this...

This world's pathetic. 100 years and all that's happened is the true evil in this world has unquestionable power. Had the Nazi's won, would the world have been worse? I wouldn't be so sure frankly. Makes me wonder...

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alley


Member

Posted Wed Jun 4th, 2008 6:41am Post subject: Holocaust
mhm had the nazis won....
well i don't think the world would be better, but it would be much more empty.
we would miss out on some great art, actors, musicians.
but would we miss it? for we wouldn'T know it.
well i wouldn't miss it i guess for i wouldn't be here.
the issue of who knew about the conzentration camps is wildly discussed, even today.
but whatever comes out you can't change now, what happened then.

but as you mentioned irak and north korea. i honestly wonder.
back in ww 2 the soldiers had "a goal" they wanted to defeat the evil. they wanted to help.
how do they feel today? when all they're fighting for are a few barrels of oil. when theres no longer millions of people at stake but cheap gasoline.

of course there are people at stake but honestly the people at the desks do not care.
otherwise there would be more going on in korea, burma, tibet, africa.....
i could go on.

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st.bipolar


Member

Posted Wed Jun 4th, 2008 3:14pm Post subject: Holocaust
the world i don't think world would be better it would cause a lot of people resentment to think that they were being governed by a party which promoted ignorance and racism (i count racism as ignorant because genetically there is practically no difference between the races) not only that at the time Germany had just recently lost the first world war and the country was in depression these conditions allow mad men to seek power it would not be the same in other countries.

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Red Raven


Member

Posted Wed Jun 4th, 2008 4:40pm Post subject: Holocaust
*waves to thread from the opposite end of a 50 foot stick* X-D

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Wed Jun 4th, 2008 7:51pm Post subject: Holocaust
I have to constantly remind myself whenever I am faced with this kind of pessimistic "the human race is sliding backwards" kind of thinking that in fact we are being incredibly naive. A cursory study of world history will reveal that a number of things we innocently take for granted are quite novel concepts, including:

altruism
political leaders caring about the greater good
Star Trek's Prime Directive (do not interfere with the development of other cultures)
aiming for a state of world (or at least national) peace
charity
caring for the underprivileged

Therefore instead of bemoaning how little we have achieved, we should recognise that these things are (within the almost infinite context of history) in their relative infancy. To bemoan the holocaust and other such examples of human awfulness can sometimes be like berating a child for not understanding quantum physics.

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Wed Jun 4th, 2008 8:18pm Post subject: Holocaust
del

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WhyGenTom


Member

Posted Thu Jun 5th, 2008 12:21am Post subject: Holocaust
I know the last two of my posts in this thread have been about Anarchy and this, but i'm in no way praising extremism and am not putting a positive spin on the holocaust in any way, shape or form. Indeed it was a hideous ideal whereby the world was cleansed of what was deemed wrong, whilst failing to take into account that those deemed wrong had a human heart and soul.

I just mean that when you look at those in the nazi regime, people who had been almost brainwashed into believe those around them were right and therefore went ahead, joined forces with the extremists and did what they were told.. is that not fairly close to the position we're in? We're on the sides of a series of policial powers that can put a minimal price on the lives of their own troops and personnel, and an even lower value on those of the already suffering enemy.
From a neutral perspective the nazi regime was clearly 'the bad guys' back in world war 2, and to an extent (if someone what futile in some cases, such as the freeing of the jews etc.) the allies were 'the goodies'. If you look onto the world right now from God's point of view would you not just see a money-obsessive, power-man set of countries flexing their muscles over countries that have nothing but oil. Looking at it from that perspective I would see 'our' America-Britain-Euro alliance as the bad guys...

From that I just think if Germany had won WW2, would it be any different? Would it not just be the majority (all be it deminished) getting on with their day to day lives, whilst hearing of the suffering and torment being forced upon poor, helpless countries? Only based on the idea of belief, rather than cash.

Maybe one day I'll be given some form of Red Dwarf style ability to swap dimensions, and see how things could have been...

Incidently: Iraq War is over WMD's right? Those famous WMD's they're tripping over every way they turn. Suddam was found guilty and hanged for 'war crimes' I believe... war crimes such as illegal taking his country into an illegal war with smaller countries on the notion that they're a threat when they're clearly not. I feel a fool for all I've said... Not least about the anti-feminism stuff, if this had been women in charge everything would probably be fine... probably.

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Thu Jun 5th, 2008 1:31am Post subject: Holocaust
maybe i misunderstood what you wanted to talk about tom.

i'm still not sure...

(by the way, don't take that to mean i'm upset or flustered, i'm not! )

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TobiasMonk


Moderator

Posted Thu Jun 5th, 2008 2:54am Post subject: Holocaust
I feel a fool for all I've said... Not least about the anti-feminism stuff, if this had been women in charge everything would probably be fine... probably.

There's hope for you yet! Though you need to post this on the other thread, and apologize to Amyl for rolling your eyes at her! X-D

I cannot be awake for nothing looks to me as it did before, Or else I am awake for the first time, and all before has been a mean sleep.
Walt Whitman

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WhyGenTom


Member

Posted Thu Jun 5th, 2008 11:51am Post subject: Holocaust
lets not talk about the feminist post here lol... a mixture of fury and being too touchy about what was said has got me in quite the predicament.

what i was saying in this thread was just a comment... just curious about what could have been, and how things might have panned out. Just wondering what you all thought to it... i wasn't suggesting they were right by any means, just that if you look at things from a third perspective perhaps things haven't come on so far...

Sorry, I fear i've come across as some sort of monstorous communist who takes pleasure in other peoples misery. It was just curiousity lawl.

- Tom

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