Topic RSS | Reply to topic
Author Post

lol8ta_120


Member

Posted Sat Jun 12th, 2010 11:51am Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

I have posted a rant about current trends in atheism that I hope will not distress the many lovely people who take their atheism seriously. It also ought to be brought to the attention of prominent atheists that their movement's being abused by attention seekers and desperate types.

I consider them poseurs. They'll have moved on to something else in five years or even five months.

Atheist fr--well, I think we're actually growing apart as friends, are now using the word "indoctrinate," which probably means something like 'to teach a doctrine' as a synonym for "brainwash." I think that may be over the top.

We're at a strange time in America...the economy's not great, the politics aren't great, and what I'm seeing is people who don't seem to feel they've got anything else to be proud of setting their children up to bait other children in school and out. This seems to be creating some problems for their kids. They also feel proud when their kids take on the teachers. Math grades? Who needs em? Class time spent on teaching math? Oh, nevermind.

Furthermore I find it a little odd to focus so much on arming children against the overtures of the religious. We're not that bad off yet, fundamentalists and zealots don't totally rule the nation. It ought to be relatively simple to say, "I don't agree with you" and walk away. I've done it myself. But I'm finding that atheists on the ground who are struggling with work and stress are beginning to claim that wiping out religious thought is going to solve all of their and humanity's problems. One, that's escapist. Two, getting your child to join you in arguing with every single believer you come across is...well, it doesn't sound fun to me.

Atheists who have lost all grip on reality are ruining the image of atheism and damaging atheists' chances of holding public office or simply enjoying their freedom to follow their own thoughts here in America.

It's actually a shame.

If I'm not wrong Richard Dawkins has asked atheists to get out there and demonstrate that they're nice people.

However, the summer camps are having a funny effect. A child I know stood up to her parents and said she'd never go to one. She wanted to see some other friends. She wondered why her parents were making such a big deal. What alarmed me was that they fought to convince her she really needed it.

They'd set aside some money and everything.

The kid asked to go to the movies.

I no longer believe that we can keep silent. We never really do, mind you. In one way or another, we articulate what has happened to us through the kind of people we become.
---Azar Nafisi

Back to top

Nitro


Member

Posted Wed Jun 16th, 2010 1:31pm Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

Really? How many atheists have you actually met claiming the wiping out of religion will cure ALL their Life stresses? I mean in actual numbers. If they actually believe that...wow are they deluded!! lol

Then, we could compare those numbers against the numbers of atheists in the country, and get a better idea of just how off course all us atheists are

I mean, being an atheist certainly never stopped the power company from billing ME...but if that's working for other atheists, I need to know about it and how they're pulling it off

I know of Richard Dawkins, and those who came before him and others like him, but I can't remember the last time I read anything he/they wrote or watched him/they speak on anything. My atheism isn't informed by other atheists really..

Not that I don't agree some people, whatever their belief, can be continually annoying.

I've never 'argued' with a believer about being an atheist. I've defended my right NOT to believe a few times. And it's not atheists banging on my door in the morning to hand me Watch Tower tracts or to 'invite new people to the Sunday brunch at the church'.

Just as some believers would argue that the raging fundamentalists among them are not representative of themselves, so I'd say the same of those who are atheists.

I can see, though, how some people, in an effort to 'find an identity' would do so with many things. And you're right, they're the same folks who will skip around from crystal gazing to hyperbolic chambers to sweat lodges to some political party etc etc because they're really 'joiners' and are hoping that by joining a thing they'll find identity of some sort.

Where I live, there's def no 'atheist group' to join. I don't know any atheists with their own buildings that meet at regular times or anything like that. But you never know...

Being atheist is just a part of who I am. And the only time I actually speak about it, besides an occasional post here, is if someone in the meat world prods at me about 'the good lord' and why don't I go to church and why don't I believe and why don't i pray etc etc etc...otherwise, i don't really talk about it...'militantism' of any kind gives me the willies a little....

Haven't heard about any kids abandoning math in school in favor of arguing atheism with their teachers...what school did that happen in???

Really? Wow.

Back to top

joan


Member

Posted Thu Jun 17th, 2010 9:44am Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

To me, atheism simply means walking away from religion - quietly. Like Nitro, I don't push it, but I do politely reject efforts to recruit me into following ancient supernatural beliefs. Most people I know, have no idea I'm an atheist - and wouldn't care anyway. Many people here (Australia) simply never personally encountered religious belief, and probably never will. State schools don't usually teach it, except in special classes after school, for those children whose parents request it.


Back to top

michael


Member

Posted Wed Jun 23rd, 2010 9:31pm Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

Nitro, what is "the meat world" ? is this a term i don't know about? (there are plenty of things i don't know about, lol)

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

Back to top

michael


Member

Posted Wed Jun 23rd, 2010 9:47pm Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

oh nevermind, i found it it means "physical world, not the internet".. i thought maybe you knew lots of evangelical slaughterhouse workers who wanted you to Meat Their Savior.

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

Back to top

lol8ta_120


Member

Posted Mon Jun 28th, 2010 8:32am Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

Nitro said:
Really? How many atheists have you actually met claiming the wiping out of religion will cure ALL their Life stresses? I mean in actual numbers. If they actually believe that...wow are they deluded!! lol

Then, we could compare those numbers against the numbers of atheists in the country, and get a better idea of just how off course all us atheists are

I mean, being an atheist certainly never stopped the power company from billing ME...but if that's working for other atheists, I need to know about it and how they're pulling it off

I know of Richard Dawkins, and those who came before him and others like him, but I can't remember the last time I read anything he/they wrote or watched him/they speak on anything. My atheism isn't informed by other atheists really..

Not that I don't agree some people, whatever their belief, can be continually annoying.

I've never 'argued' with a believer about being an atheist. I've defended my right NOT to believe a few times. And it's not atheists banging on my door in the morning to hand me Watch Tower tracts or to 'invite new people to the Sunday brunch at the church'.

Just as some believers would argue that the raging fundamentalists among them are not representative of themselves, so I'd say the same of those who are atheists.

I can see, though, how some people, in an effort to 'find an identity' would do so with many things. And you're right, they're the same folks who will skip around from crystal gazing to hyperbolic chambers to sweat lodges to some political party etc etc because they're really 'joiners' and are hoping that by joining a thing they'll find identity of some sort.

Where I live, there's def no 'atheist group' to join. I don't know any atheists with their own buildings that meet at regular times or anything like that. But you never know...

Being atheist is just a part of who I am. And the only time I actually speak about it, besides an occasional post here, is if someone in the meat world prods at me about 'the good lord' and why don't I go to church and why don't I believe and why don't i pray etc etc etc...otherwise, i don't really talk about it...'militantism' of any kind gives me the willies a little....

Haven't heard about any kids abandoning math in school in favor of arguing atheism with their teachers...what school did that happen in???

I couldn't really reveal where the school is or who the trend's among, these are people I'm loyal to and there's no point...witnessed bragging first hand. It's gonna have to be only my word, my friends can always change. I tend to prefer working class company to professionl or whatever level of the middle class people are designating themselves. And I think it's the combined hopelessness of the present economy, overcrowded schools, and feelings of isolation all coming together. I think the percentage would be small, although I'm not sure if most atheists are still highly educated and professional (Dawkins irritated me a long time ago in a TED talk by focusing a lot on that. Different times now.)

The poseurs you run across are a different crowd and were going to be inevitable once atheists formed a network and got a presence in the culture. I mean, people cop ridiculous poses at parties, but, dudes, look at yourselves.

And I think you mentioned defending your right to your views. I think that it's the right to take an atheist position and disbelieve that's still crucial for everbody and for resolving issues. So many online discussions, if you've noticed, are back-and-forths about arguments for or against. When will anyone ever learn it's cooler to say "I think what I think and don't have to bother rehashing information."

I think that's really been missing lately as the Zeitgeist's grown. Typical atheists are very informed and knowledgable in at least one area, so often more. I feel that they haven't been able to express themselves fully lately, and others haven't been able to enjoy the information exchange and pleasant manners you're going to find among humanists, a group tightly linked to atheists, agnostics, etc.

Just too much pointless wrangling in the world.

If I were the sort of person who concluded with "Peace," I'd type "Peace" now.

I no longer believe that we can keep silent. We never really do, mind you. In one way or another, we articulate what has happened to us through the kind of people we become.
---Azar Nafisi

Back to top

lol8ta_120


Member

Posted Mon Jun 28th, 2010 8:36am Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

michael said:
oh nevermind, i found it it means "physical world, not the internet".. i thought maybe you knew lots of evangelical slaughterhouse workers who wanted you to Meat Their Savior.

I never knew meat world, either, but now I'm moved to confess something: sometimes I call middle Americans "Meat People" because their firm, pink skin just calls pork and bacon to mind.

Also, I think the Meat People have a reputation for being cornfed.

I no longer believe that we can keep silent. We never really do, mind you. In one way or another, we articulate what has happened to us through the kind of people we become.
---Azar Nafisi

Back to top

michael


Member

Posted Tue Jun 29th, 2010 12:03am Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

actually i'm pretty bronze right now, considering the weather and my background, but thanks for playing.

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

Back to top

Ian Fisher


Member

Posted Tue Jun 29th, 2010 5:34am Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

I'm keen to post but I feel that I missed something. I don't see a link to lol8ta's referenced rant. Oh well, you caught my attention with comments about teaching children.

I find this a difficult area especially in families of mixed beliefs. I have the most satisfaction when I feel I have done a good job of emulating my own best teachers' methods.

It's a good day when I successfully suppress my impulse to tell what I know, and instead encourage my children to work out answers for themselves, as best they can.

Very Dawkins! I wonder whether I am even close to being as impartial as I like to think I am. I'm not as good as the best teachers I try to emulate. But what do you think? Is this a good attitude? Do you try the same? Or should we actively encourage our children to be like ourselves?


Back to top

lol8ta_120


Member

Posted Tue Jul 6th, 2010 4:55pm Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

"Very Dawkins! I wonder whether I am even close to being as impartial as I like to think I am. I'm not as good as the best teachers I try to emulate. But what do you think? Is this a good attitude? Do you try the same? Or should we actively encourage our children to be like ourselves?"

That's an interesting question. I don't have kids, just remember my own upbringing, my parents were rather hands-off. I always approve most of my friends who take a less-said-the-better attitude.
I think kids pick up a lot at home anyway, don't you? They may play around with being like their parents and then being like somebody else.

Just like when some go to college and go through a bizarre fashion and music cycle. They've got emo gear one day and hip hop the next.

I think it's great when kids just come to their parents with life questions and philosohical questions on their own, and get the parents' view and then a conversation.

I think of teachers often too, Ian, and also feel good when I feel most like the good ones. This involves some annoying quoting on my part, and giving my opinion on every single book I recognize as one I've read.

Perhaps showing what you like works wonders all on its own?

I no longer believe that we can keep silent. We never really do, mind you. In one way or another, we articulate what has happened to us through the kind of people we become.
---Azar Nafisi

Back to top

tmidir


Member

Posted Fri Jul 9th, 2010 9:40pm Post subject: I Don't Apologize...Except for Unclear Prose

Richard Dawkins denied and actively refuted the Gaia theory. I now want to research my current theory, cutting edge and highly controvercial as it is, that he is a narrow minded, self centred nincompoop!

ni or ecky ecky ptang ptang....I just can\'t decide!

Back to top