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PC Caliban

Member
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Posted Fri Nov 18th, 2011 12:17pm Post subject: Is Self-Sacrifice Suicide?
Here is a topic which interests me. In Tibet at the moment Monks are setting themselves on fire in demonstration against Chinese Human Rights Abuses. Emmeline Pankhurst killed herself for the Suffrage of Women. The question is are these people suicidal or sacrificial? To me it was always a simple answer. If someone kills themselves to draw attention to a social injustice it is a Sacrifice, it is not a Suicide. Simply because if the social injustice was rectified they would not end their life. Others, I have discovered do not come to the same conclusion and refuse to accept that someone who takes their own life to end social injustice is not mentally ill.
An interesting aspect is the same people who infer mental illness in all cases of Self-Sacrifice when talking about British Soliders who have died in the Wars use the description, "They Sacrificed their lives for their Country!" Yet, if they believe that to willingly put your life in peril or to kill yourself for a cause is mental illness why don't they call those soldiers, "Suicidal Soldiers who through mental illness put themselves in a potentially lethal situation!"
Also, terrorists are called things like "Suicidal Bombers!" yet a British RAF fighter is called a "Sacrifice!" if they die in battle. So why don't we call terrorist "Sacrificial Bombers!" ?
To me someone is a suicide if they are doing it for personal reasons, they can no longer cope with life. Also, a lot of the time it is because of Mental Health issues, but not always. It can be down to the Stress of everyday life. Being stressed out is not Mental Illness in itself even though it can lead to it. But if someone has identified a social injustice and the only way to enforce change, like Emmeline Pankhurst is to take their own life in a very public way that individual is a Sacrifice, not a Suicide.
And there lies another distinction between sacrifice and suicide. Suicide is nearly always done in solitude with no campaigning for change before hand. Sacrifice is carried out in a Public domain and is usually done by some one who has campaigned for change and discovered it will take more than debate to force the desired change.
Any views on this?
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Nitro

Member
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Posted Tue Nov 22nd, 2011 8:34pm Post subject: Is Self-Sacrifice Suicide?
Yeah, that maybe this topic could've been put under 'general musings' instead of in an area that some members come to for solace and support.
I'm not saying the topic can't or shouldn't be discussed, but it strikes me as bad judgement or insensitivity to place it here.
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Vampyros

Member
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Posted Wed Nov 23rd, 2011 12:34pm Post subject: Is Self-Sacrifice Suicide?
I disagree, from a personal perspective found this very interesting and will give it more thought
Thanks
V
I think my multiple personalities have multiple personalities - makes for quite a party.
"Books and friends should be few but good."
"It is better to be in chains with friends , than to be in a garden with strangers." -Persian Proverb
"Don't be dismayed at goodbyes. A farewell is before you can meet again. And meeting again after a moment or a lifetime is certain for those who are friends." - Richard Bach
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gadgetgirl

Member
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Posted Sat Nov 26th, 2011 9:03am Post subject: Is Self-Sacrifice Suicide?
Edited to say "contents removed by request of the author".
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Nitro

Member
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Posted Wed Dec 14th, 2011 7:52am Post subject: Is Self-Sacrifice Suicide?
No offense Gg, but I think I specifically stated I was not suggesting it shouldn't be discussed.
"but I personally believe that suicide is not an elephant in the room - it should be discussed."
I made my statement based on previous posts made in this area by other members who said they thought of this area as a safe haven of sorts. "Suicidal ideation" is a symptom of BPD and a very real threat for some people who suffer with that. Again, I'm not saying it should or should not be discussed, I only expressed that it could be but maybe in some more appropriate area of the board, that's all.
If I'm off-base, that's fine too
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gadgetgirl

Member
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Posted Thu Dec 15th, 2011 2:10am Post subject: Is Self-Sacrifice Suicide?
Sorry Nitro, I know what you are saying, but I tend to think that people are forewarned before they visit this area - whereas General Musings is more of a safe "normal" place. I hope you realise I am not encouraging anything... God knows I've seen the leftovers and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
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