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MMarty


Member

Posted Fri Feb 4th, 2011 5:09am Post subject: Mr Yamaguchi

I was surprised to read the furore that had blown up (excuse the pun)surrounding your jokes on QI regarding the above.

As someone who spent 7 years living in Tokyo and faced a great deal of racism from the Japanese I find it a little rich that complaints have been made by the Japanese Embassy. Futhermore as someone who was constantly referred to as Gaijin (translation:unwashed barbarian) or bacca gaijin (translation stupid unwashed barbarian) during my entire stay I find it a little rich and totally incredible that they are hypersensitive about such humour. It seems a little ridiculous that such sensitivity is forthcoming from Japan, when within my first week of my arriving in Japan in 1997 the Supreme Court took just 90 seconds to dismiss completely the POW's from UK, Netherlands and Australia class action, on the basis they could not apologise or compensate the POW's for something the judiciary did not believe took place!!

The barbarity that Japan inflicted in their Asian Holocaust is completely ignored and not acknowledged in the slightest by japan, and their schools teach that Japan was liberating Asia from the western imperialists when the small matter of that rather regretable incident called the Second World war and in particular the war in Asia/Pacific took place.

Whilst i do not condone the dropping of the A bombs, it is a decision that is easy to criticise 70 years on. However unfortunately barbarity begats barbarity and Japan would do well to recognise this and acknowledge it.

It is this lack of acknowledgement and our readiness to apologise in this way that enables Japan to see itself and promote this belief that they are a victim not a perpetrator.

The matter of English humour and the referrences to the death of Yamaguchi are what they are, harmless. Lets be realistic Mr Yamaguchi clearly qualified as one of the unluckiest people ever to live on this planet.

In my vast experience of being on the receiving end of overt endemic biggoted racist behaviour whilst I lived and established a company in Japan, I really wish we would not be so quick to believe we have been insensitive when japan from the government down is happy to express their insensitivities and biggotry to we foreigners.

I am sorry if this russles a few feathers but I feel able to be objective based on personal experience about such matters and feel that until the double standards are removed that Japan will never face up to its shocking past as Germany has had to and clearly does.

So lets not be so quick to apologise for our culture when others do not even acknowledge their past barbarity.

I am sure this will be removed but I have at least had my say as someone who was ridiculed and referred to in an insulting racist manner in ways that are enmeshed in the social fabric of Japan.. Thank you


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Harfin


Member

Posted Fri Feb 4th, 2011 12:11pm Post subject: Mr Yamaguchi

As I commented this morning on FB, "What a load of cobblers! Pity the Japanese were not a little more 'sensitive' to humanity in so many parts of SE Asia during an earlier phase of the war. We remember, Japan; we remember!"
Alan


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mojo-chan


Member

Posted Sun Feb 13th, 2011 12:30pm Post subject: Mr Yamaguchi

Let me ask you guys something. Do you feel responsible for war crimes committed by Britain? I am thinking about things like the concentration camps in Africa. What about shooting soldiers accused of cowardice in the First World War when actually they had shell shock, now known as PTSD? How about slavery?

Do you hold the average German citizen living today responsible for the holocaust? Do you think that it was even common knowledge in Germany at the time it was happening? If asked would a German living in the 1940s have supported genocide?

What about Iraqis? Iraq committed war crimes and genocide. Maybe that makes it okay to kill them. How about 9/11, after all the US murdered innocent people so surely retaliation in kind is okay? Or don't you agree with Bin Laden on that one?

War crimes do not justify the indiscriminate killing of civilians. It was regrettable that we had to do it in WW2 but at the time it was justifiable in light of the threat to our sovereignty. Japan was not capable of beating the US and certainly not of invading it by the time the atomic bombs were used. The US wanted to test them and bring the war to an end before Russia became involved. They could have used them in unpopulated areas as a demonstration of what would happen if Japan did not surrender. They decided to use it in civilians instead, and the suffering was immense.


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mojo-chan


Member

Posted Sun Feb 13th, 2011 12:32pm Post subject: Mr Yamaguchi

PS. I will be out in Japan in a couple of weeks. This must be my 15th or so visit now. I have only encountered racism a couple of times, which is actually a lot less than I get in the UK.


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MMarty


Member

Posted Sun Feb 13th, 2011 2:44pm Post subject: Mr Yamaguchi

mojo-chan,

Thank you for illustrating my points perfectly!

I find it extremely regretable that you feel "we had to do it" (the indescriminate killing of civilians)..What on earth was justifiable about about the indescrimate slaughter of civilians across Asia, what threat to Japan's soveriegnty did the civilians in Nanjing represent, when your officers decided to have beheading competitions, or those who were tied up for live bayonette practice.

Japan's imperialist intent was evidenced by your occupying Korea and Manchuria, where you experimented with chemical weapons on civilians in the latter.

You have illustrated my point perfectly, by justifying the unjustifiable, and if educated, (I use that term in the loosest possible manner when talking historical exactitudes concerning Japan's role in WWII) in Japan you have further backed up my point, in so far as my contention that history concerning this barbarity and crimminalty in Japan has been so distorted as to suggest that government backed economy with truth has been elelevated to an art form.

With regard to the matters you raised as a means of justifying Japans behaviour, and in this case your views, concerning the concentration camps et al. I firmly believe that these were criminal acts etc... and a stain on our history as do most people, and we have acknowledged that, Japan and you obviously have not. Furthermore your point about shooting of soldiers in WWI for cowardice, was an ignorant act, based on the fact that PTSD was neither recognised and undersood medically at the time. However I should point out that this represent I believe 326 men. I shall repeat 326 men!! not the hundreds of thousands of civilians slaughtered with abandon by Japan, which would illustrate the spuriousness of your flimsy to say the least argument on this point. But I fear we digress and to attempt to get me to do that, represents a classic case of avoidence and divergence on your part to avoid facing up to the realities of the points my original post raises.

With regard to Germany they have acknowledged their role in the war etc and apologised. Japan has not! that is why people find it unacceptable that Japan now plays the victim.

Furthermore and in closing, the level of barbarity that Japan demonstrated as it created a holocaust across Asia from 1933 onwards was in no way jusitified as a threat to Japans soveriegnty.

It is this lack of acknowledgement, and lack of apology for Japans war time barbarity which is my point, and the behaviour of people like yourself and your sordid attempts at justification of this genocide incredulous and unpalletable. Your attempted justification of this utter barbarity is what I find, to qoute you "regrettable", however I would add the caveat , "regrettable in the extreme!"

Thank you once again, you have, as I said earlier clearly and unevocably proved my contentions and points. Not a circumstance you either intended or would have wished for I am sure.


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mojo-chan


Member

Posted Tue Feb 15th, 2011 7:08pm Post subject: Mr Yamaguchi

You misunderstood completely. Try reading without prejudice next time.

My only point is that all countries have done unjustifiable things in the past, with varying degrees of public knowledge and support. Either way it does not justify killing innocent civilians of that country. Two wrongs don't make a right, as they say.

America did bad stuff. The UK did bad stuff. That does not justify 9/11 or 7/7. It does not lessen the suffering of those caught up in the attacks and the view that "they had it coming" is widely denounced.

Japan did bad stuff, that does not justify dropping atomic bombs on cities. It does not lessen the suffering of those caught up in the attacks and the view that "they had it coming" should be denounced.

That is all I am saying, don't read more into it like you did last time.


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