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marzgirl


Member

Posted Thu Feb 25th, 2010 6:58pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

My son keeps having alot of dysphoric cycles. He gets so angy, so frustrated. When he gets like this he will argue and pick fights. I can say something is red and he will insist it is blue. It is like he is arguing for the sake of arguing.

As the cycle escelates he makes threats of bodily harm to others and says he is going to go live with his dad when he does not get what he wants. He wants what he wants, when he wants it or else..... Eventually he gets to the point where he thinks if someone angers him just one more time that he will hurt that person, no matter who they are. Even the school police officer.

I am seeking out any advice/copeing skills anyone can pass on to me. If anyone has cycles of dysphoria I would like to find out more about what has worked for others, what has not worked and what makes it worse.

XXXXXX

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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katysara


Moderator

Posted Fri Feb 26th, 2010 1:10pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

I get dysphoric mania so I know the very least of what your son is going through - however it is hard for me to answer your question because he is so young. Plus it is hard to answer it because I have no real answer - if I become dysphoric I have to ride it out. It helps if people around me understand what is going on and don't make me feel worse for being a bitch/angry/irritable - because, as I hope most of you know, that is not the real KS , that is an ill-KS. When I am ill like that I can argue red is blue.

It's good that you are educated about what is going on, that should be a great help to your son. It's not an excuse for bad behaviour, but it is an excuse to go easy on him because it is not really him doing these things. It's a fine balance to strike between allowing him to get away with some stuff and not accepting other things. You know your son better than anyone, I am sure you will work your way through it.

Making threats of bodily harm to others is not definately dysphoric mania, it's anger - granted he cannot control his anger though, which is where the dysphoric part kicks in. Making demands of you and blackmailing you about living with his father is not dysphoric mania, it's manipulation to get what he wants!!!

I will add that since I started on ablify (aripiprizole) my dysphoria has decreased. I am on 3 mood stabilisers now.

ksx

I am an administrator on this site.

"Having a great intellect is no path to being happy."
~ Stephen Fry

See my website: www.katysaraculling.com

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michael


Member

Posted Fri Feb 26th, 2010 4:45pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

i agree with what katy's saying about the threats. i can't begin to imagine how difficult this situation must be for both you and him. but it's possible for him to learn what dysphoria is and what the different moods are, and then learn how to act while in them.

i don't have bipolar, so i don't know as well as katy what the best techniques are. but i do have different moods, moods that don't feel like myself, and dealing with the different moods is kind of like learning how to run in different terrains...running in sand or snow, running underwater, running uphill, running on nice short grass, running downhill (whoaaa!) and i've learned what they all feel like, and, while they do affect me and my actions, i am so much better now at keeping my balance through them. one can't act the SAME through every mood, just like you don't really run the same if you are running in sand...you learn to move your legs in a different way that makes the best of it...you learn to make your reaction to these moods a reaction that actually helps balance things out, rather than adding more struggle or grief to what the illness is already putting forth.

does that make any sense at all?

but the severity is different for different folks. what makes sense to me and my depression may seem kinda flippant and superficial to someone with a more severe situation on their hands, yknow?

i know you've talked a little about his physical activities, that he was taking tennis, etc... does he still do that? for me, i've learned a lot about what to do from very physical experiences. it's hard to explain, but i can tell what kind of mood is going on from certain ways i feel in my body. and physical activity isn't just good for getting aggression out, i think it's been good for helping me be aware of my body, and learning physical ways of "keeping balance" that i can then reuse mentally.

anyways... i guess i'm saying, he needs to acknowledge that he IS feeling all firey and ragey, and maybe that's where the lashing out STARTS... but it's all actions that are adding fuel to the fire. my GUESS (and i stress guess, lol, since i'm not expert) is that he needs to learn ways of screaming "i'm angry and don't feel like myself and i feel all firey and mad and want to hurt everybody!!" that don't get everyone else all worked up as well. (that, and also learn some things like "okay, i'm feeling mad and angry and want to hurt everyone... what can i do that would really make me feel better?") i'm guessing that other folks' reactions just give him more reason (in his mind) to get madder.

if i've said any of that stuff before, and sound like someone goin on and on about myself, i'm sorry! lol! not being a parent, i can only talk about me. and when i put what i do in words, it does sound kinda silly

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

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katysara


Moderator

Posted Fri Feb 26th, 2010 5:24pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

michael said:

he needs to acknowledge that he IS feeling all firey and ragey, and maybe that's where the lashing out STARTS... but it's all actions that are adding fuel to the fire. my GUESS (and i stress guess, lol, since i'm not expert) is that he needs to learn ways of screaming "i'm angry and don't feel like myself and i feel all firey and mad and want to hurt everybody!!" that don't get everyone else all worked up as well. (that, and also learn some things like "okay, i'm feeling mad and angry and want to hurt everyone... what can i do that would really make me feel better?")

You made sense Michael - particularly the section I have highlighted - a good way of him learning about his illnesses and most importantly ASKING FOR HELP when things start to go wrong. If he could learn to do that AND GOT POSITIVE RESPONSES as a result of him seeking help, it would be a big step forward.

KSx

I am an administrator on this site.

"Having a great intellect is no path to being happy."
~ Stephen Fry

See my website: www.katysaraculling.com

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marzgirl


Member

Posted Fri Feb 26th, 2010 8:58pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

Thank you both! My son has been playing basketball 3x per week. I am not sure what to do about the next sport offered because he will be going to his dad's part of the summer.

I have him on a token system, green=5min, blue=10min, red=15min and black=30min. He can turn them in to watch a movie or play video games. If he has a bad day I don't take away what he has earned, I just do not allow him to redeem them that day. He hates the token system with all of his being!!!!

He does not have to redeem tokens to play outside because physical activity is supposed to be helpful. I have not figured this out yet. Sometimes when he goes out and rides his bike with his friend or plays in their yard he comes home kind of over stimulated. He does not want the fun to be over it seems, and does not know how to bring himself down from that.

He has been wanting me to take him to school instead of taking the bus. He does not like when my husband wakes him up because he said he is too inpatient. My husband is kind of "get up......time to get up.....time to get moving......". I go tell him it is time to get up and then leave while I pee and take my pills and then I go back and tell him his cloths are on the couch and leave again. Then I go back one last time to tell him his cereal is ready and then he gets up. I will be getting him up from now on I think.

I am trying to balance out the lovey mom with the drill sergeant mom. I am using old pet names I had for him when he wa....

Teacher just called and I have to go pick my son up now. I will continue later........

XXXXXXX

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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marzgirl


Member

Posted Mon Mar 1st, 2010 4:24pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

Ok. Friday I had to pick my son up because he was punching the wall and went after one classmate while saying he was going to kill him. The teacher had to "escort" him to the office.

Michael, I think your analogy of moods being like running on different surfaces is fabulous. I did share this with my son and I hope he got it. I asked him what his body does when he is running flat, then has to run uphill and then downhill. He said his body has to adjust. I told him to imagine his moods are like these different running conditions and I will try to help him figure out what he needs to do to adjust.

I have a rule against crying. I don't know why but I would rather have a tooth pulled without anesthetic than cry, especially in front of anyone. I have always been afraid to get too emotional with my son for fear he will see my cracks and take advantage. I feel like I have to be the strong glue to hold everyone together and it makes me tired.

After I shared Michael's analogy I started to tear up a bit. My son I think asked if he could do something or have something and I told him no. He asked why and so I recaped the week. I spent 9 hours in the ER with him, picked him up early from school twice, took him to two psych appts, and he stayed home two days. I told him I am helping him as best as I know how and that I have read so many self help books I could choke on one. He needs to decide if he is going to accept all the help that is being offered and that I am tired. That is when the tears started flowing.

I don't even know if he got it. He asked if I needed him to leave for a moment when he saw the tears start and I nodded yes. At his basketball game on Sat. he started getting upset because they were loosing. I told him he does not have permission to throw a fit until after the game. His team needs him and if he threw a fit right then he would be letting himself and his team down. If after the game he still felt like he needed to throw a fit he could go to the bathroom or outside to do it. The game ended in a tie and he was thrilled!!!

I dropped him off at school this morning. I gave him a book of mendalas to color if he needed to chill out at any point. I also told him he needed to choose appropriate times to give himself permission to throw his fits. If it is not the time and or place then he needs to tell himself he will give himself permission to let it all out when it is the appropriate time and place.

I am going to look up the abilify. I am not sure if he is old enough to take it or not. The weekend was pretty good. My son got to do alot of things he wanted to do. Played with friends, went on bike ride with stepdad, watched a movie......When I did tell him no and he started to get upset we talked it out. I reminded him of what he had already gotten to do and told him unfortunatly I cannot tell him yes everytime. He stayed pretty calm although disappointed.

Here's to a better week this week!!! Cheers!!! Thank you both for all of your suggestions. If you think of anything else please let me know. I will keep you posted..........

Giant HUGS to you both!!!! XXXXXXX

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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tito


Member *

Posted Mon Mar 1st, 2010 5:47pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

I have been thinking about you a lot on this subject, but not being that 'with it' just lately I've not commented because I was worried I'd talk crap.

In all fairness I don't usually worry about talking crap.

But just now I am. Worried. See. I'm talking crap.

All I can do is say I am thinking of you and sending good wishes and prayers. Love from me xxx


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michael


Member

Posted Mon Mar 1st, 2010 8:51pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

Tito: hugs!

Marz: hugs to you too, i was thinking about him over the weekend. i'm glad to hear he was happy after the basketball game. it may not be such a bad thing for him to see you cry. do you tell him how you feel a lot of the time? i seem to remember that you do... it may help him to know that you have emotions too, and his own crying and getting angry, while they need to be kept within bounds, aren't some kind of freakish thing in themselves. also, you may be stressing yourself out if you feel you must be stoic all the time.

i have a friend on here who says he feels he has to be the strong one all the time and not say how he feels, so i get what you mean though not from experience.

a random other thing, i like the chicago cubs and their pitcher, zambrano, used to get in trouble all the time for getting emotional on the mound. there's articles out there about how he and his coach tried to bottle it all up, and then gave up on that idea and reached a compromise. seems zambrano can't get his pitching groove on unless he's allowed to pump his fist and yell "goddammit!!" when he's mad at himself. now, while that's NOT okay for kids at a basketball game, who knows, it might be nice for him to know there's pros out there with the same situations! for zambrano, i think the compromise was that the coach tries to make sure the umpire knows zambrano is mad at HIMSELF, not screaming at the ump!

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

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tito


Member *

Posted Mon Mar 1st, 2010 9:04pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

And back at ya Michael xxxx


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marzgirl


Member

Posted Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 7:54am Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

Well, he made it the whole day at school today. Teacher wrote he had a hard time and had to bring work home he did not finish at school. He keeps acting like he does not feel good to get out of things and I keep catching him acting fine. He admitted to fakeing today but I told him one of these days his insides are going to be about to fall out of his rear end and not one is going to believe him.

XXXXX nighty night all. almost 1am here and I have to get up at 6:40a. GRRRRR!!!!

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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michael


Member

Posted Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 4:28pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

lol!!! oh my god, that's not a good image!!! maybe that will straighten him up!

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

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marzgirl


Member

Posted Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 6:59pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

I know right! I said it to him a bit more colorfully and he got a bit of a chuckle out of it.

I found out one reason he got in trouble yesterday was because he took a drink of water and spit it out everywhere. He says he choked and could not help it, but with his latest antics I am not sure I believe that.

The week before last he and two classmates where in the bathroom and my son acted like he had pee on his hand and was chasing them around trying to grab them with his pee hand. One kid pushed him and the other slammed the door closed on the stall and my son's finger was in the way. To hear my son tell it, this was all the other kids fault. I told him if he told me he had pee on his hand and was trying to grab me I would push him away too! That is not a funny game to play. Cause and effect, not the other way around. Don't get mad at your ball because you threw it in the neighbors window.

Always trying to create chaos. The other kids (who have issues also) let him have it when he does things like that so I hope hearing it from them, he will start to listen.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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michael


Member

Posted Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 7:54pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

geeze, i bet it's hard to tell what's something that may be a symptom and what's just typical chaos for kids that age. (i mean, some of the things you describe, i would definitely put down as beyond the typical chaos... but the pee hand...lol...sounds like every day at school for me!)

i know when i had the kinda agitated depression / dysphoria / somethin that seemed kinda like what folks say is mixed episode but for me was depression combined with wierd medicine (there would be hyphens between all those words but i forgot) kinda thing, it kinda felt like being in 7th grade all over again. and before all of that, when i was in another relationship, and depression started, i would sometimes get into arguments & have emotions that were much like adolescence. it's not so much like that these days.

it must be so difficult having that when you are that age!!

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

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katysara


Moderator

Posted Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 7:54pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

Thinking of you both. Marz your son is lucky to have you. i agree that you should get rid of your no crying rule, he should see when he upsets you - it will make him think.

ksx

I am an administrator on this site.

"Having a great intellect is no path to being happy."
~ Stephen Fry

See my website: www.katysaraculling.com

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marzgirl


Member

Posted Tue Mar 2nd, 2010 9:01pm Post subject: My sweet dysphoric maniac

Perhaps KS. I think I am also afraid that if I start with the whole crying bit, it will open flood gates and I will not be able to stop. EVER.

My dad was Air Force so growing up we moved every 3-4 years. I used to get really bitchy with friends and start fights before I moved. I did not realize until I was older that I did that on purpose. It is easier to leave people if you are mad at them and I often did not even say good bye.

As far as my son chasing people with his pee hand.....I do remember doing some things along those lines but not in middle school. Elementary school we did the typical cootie thing. If we thought someone was gross, especially boys cause they are all gross when you are 8, we pretended we had cootie spray and gave each other cootie shots so we would not catch cooties from them.

In 6th grade my parents caught me with cigs. They made me smoke a whole pack of menthols and took a picture of me hugging a trash can looking green in the face. The next morning my dad took me to school and told the teacher "Pam did not have time to get her homework finished because we were up really late smoking and drinking coffee together." I still do not know how my teacher managed not to laugh. I imagine that was the talk in the teacher's lounge that day.

It is not unusual for ADHD girls to start smoking young and I was one of them. I resumed when I was 15.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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