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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 1:11am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
a full or empty colostemy bag...?

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Aoibheann


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 1:17am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
HAHA! i once went to a party in dublin with some friends.. it was a really posh place like.. full of bitches... d4 heads like, and all the girls kept asking me 'what does your daddy do?' at first, i was like.. blah blah.. you know?
i got so pissed off in the end.. i started making stuff up... like ' oh, you know the RA?, hes the leader of that'... or ' hes in prison for murder'... or 'hes actually unemployed' hahahaaa........ was HILARIOUS... the faces on them... ! HA

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thesecretlifeofamanicdepressive


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 1:18am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
Two of my uncles were in prison for being in the RA. And I'm currently going through security clearance for a job with the Met police! Not. A. Chance!

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Aoibheann


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 1:23am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
HAHHAAA, mad stuff. Think my uncle on my dads side is... he went to prison a few times..for related stuff..... we dont tend to talk about it tho....
my great grandad was in the real one.. when the rising and all happened.. he had a state funeral.. im emmencly proud.. have the proclamation stuck on my wall! coolio... love irish history, specially at that time.. i ADORE it. have loads of books on it.. and of course.. i would marry micheal collins if i could you know...!

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 1:56am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
Crazy - This stuff above is part of a dialogue about treatment routes and Bipolar rather than Seaneen herself, although the waters have been very muddied for different reasons.

And personally I think at the core of all this, broadening this out as it were and taking it away from Seaneen' personal situation, is that if someone is saying over and over that a particular thing is stuck in one place when it isn't and the whole reason of the writing is to support a view that precludes the exploration of that wider truth, then the person putting that view must in all fairness expect to be challenged.

It is important that a generation of blog readers are not led to believe that Bipolar is constrained in a tight box of meds and organic biological constraint and fatalism.

this is because it denies individuals the possibility or hope of amelioration of symptoms

and

is incorrect - based on the misunderstanding that the cause is the symptom, the outcomes of bipolar as much as bpd are very addressable by behavioural therapies, as i've just carefully explained above.

It is the outcomes of being manic etc that forms the core of Seaneens blog - what happens in her life as a mentally-interesting person that she finds so much in her way - the threat of homelessnes , iniquity of the care system etc, yet this is what she is constantly turning her back on whilst at the same time bemoaning their supposed inadequacies.

It is exactly these issues that form the core of the Nhs response, and thats not from me, thats directly from the people who design manage and deliver the therapeutic response, and there are acres and acres of research studies and trials and case studies giving evidence to this.

The fact that Seaneen uses her own life to present this stance means that that is the ground that is reviewd in challenging that position.

and basically it is being challenged cos it is indeed a wrong viewpoint she expresses as a comment on Bipolar in the Uk and the treatment protocols for it.

There is half a century of clinical psychology that leads to the position that the outcomes of this disorder and similar ones like BPD can be ameliorated by the use of behavioural modification.

Most of what Seaneen expresses in the pages and pages of her blog that i've read come under the DSM as Anxiety, or Cognitive distortion.
So if she wanted to put the general view she has about the pathology of Bipolar as a general discussion it would be the same discussion but not personalised to her.

Either we are real here or not, i mean its fantasy to deny clinical evidence.

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thesecretlifeofamanicdepressive


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 2:00am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
It is the outcomes of being manic etc that forms the core of Seaneens blog - what happens in her life as a mentally-interesting person that she finds so much in her way - the threat of homelessnes , iniquity of the care system etc, yet this is what she is constantly turning her back on whilst at the same time bemoaning their supposed inadequacies.

Just....how do I turn my back on it?

It's my blog. Of course it's about my experiences. I am not fatalistic about it either. I know bipolar can't be cured right now, but I hope it will be and I hopeful that I can manage my condition. I am still learning.

What I don't get about you is you thinking you know me somehow when you don't. I do expect to be challenged but not on the level you try to, you challenge me like you're with me every day and know what I do in my life.

Sometimes I feel stuck. Is that so bad?

I also can't help being personal. I can't speak for anyone else and don't try to.

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Aoibheann


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 2:09am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
I feel stuck a lot also, its good to get un-stuck i think. makes me feel a bit better for a time.

lets sing a song...!

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 2:18am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
Hey

i'm having trouble keeping up here , so maybe its a good time to applaud you for everything that is totally good about you and all that , yeah.

an you might well be underestimating the amount i agree with you abouyt

Just an example of what i mean tho, which i picked up from a post two back or something...

the difference between mood disorders and emotional disorders

I checked this out before and they are both the same thing, except the head of Gloucestershire psychological therapies who i am lucky enough to have as my therapist for the last year or more is prepared tpo admit that a mood is a set of simmilar types of feelings - happy, anxious, angry etc - extended over a period of time- by essentially they are the same thing.I wasn't sure so i asked her..

given this sort of thing, the real stumblig block between us i am sure is your thought that i deny the 'biologicalness' as it were of the disoder, i don't and it is a life long disorder unlike P disorders, but the point is that itsthe symptoms not the causes which are addressed and which bring relief from the undoubted difficulties of bp.

The reason you feel like i act like i'mwith you every day and know what you do is that youve written thousands of wrords describing in real detail. I know that is not the entirety of s OF COURSE NOT, BUT I CERTAINLY KNOW YOUR PUBLISHE DVIEWS ER! Fuck CAPS LOCK again.

We probably both have misconceptions of where the other is at. ther is ways of making your life more "peaceful" and in control, thats all i want you to know, and i so so so want you to find your own way in your own way to where you want to be. So just take my good will , and be you. cool ??

Thanks by the way for everything you have illuminated for me. take care

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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 2:21am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
Ok I'll be honest, when I first read this thread I didnt know about Seaneen's blogs or the post in question and I was responding going on what was highlighted in this thread only.... Now Ive gone and read chunks of her blogs AND the responce that you left Chris, my views are alot stronger on this whole issue.

I am actually reeling right now as to how anyone, with good intentions or not, can be so harsh in a responce to someone's emotional and open display of their life. I read the responce with a nuetral stand point, I am not routing for either side here and all I felt from it was an attitude of "your wrong, your repeating yourself over and over, you are ignoring all the good responces being sent to you and all you are given back is negative. Cop-on and meet your illness head on". Now I know you didnt say it like that, use those words or probably meant it that way BUT thats how it came across and it was wrong.

Seaneen's blog is a personal view of Manic Depression using her life as an example. part of dealing with MD, and trying to get help for it, is the constant attempt and repetition of views/complaints/touching on certain subjects. It can take years, not only weeks or months, of backward and forward in thoughts or attempts at sorting things out. Seaneen displaying that is exactly what happens in reality, she is not wrong. You do not have the right to go and take it upon yourself to give her the nudge or wakeup call that will bring her round. she has to find that herself. In her responce to your comment, she started out by saying she wasnt ready for it.

People work at their own levels Chris and esp as someone going into that line of work, you have to learn not to push someone and tell them that they are wrong. that does damage. not help.

And before you throw at me any research or references at me, I know. I trained in counselling. I excelled in it. I know what Im talking about.

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 2:42am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
so you'll know about user-centred contracts.

and you'll know that anxiety is baeat.sed around the perception of a risk or threat, which can be appraised for its validity

so if the speakers agenda is 'i'm worried and it causes me distress' the response will be appraise accurately the risk. their is nothing about the 'listener's' agenda there.

The whole dialogue has been a response to the issues put into the public space of her blog.

mixed with a real desire to facilitate a reduction in the stated 'distress'.

thats the agenda, together with the responsibilities of putting a point of view in a powerful and influential public space, ie Seaneen's blog

ie. my car won't go - thats cos its run out of petrol - no that cant be triue - ok if thats what you wont to believe dont put petrol in it , but it wont go til you do, even if you don't like that message.

Not my agenda, its not my car and i dont have to go any where in it.

You want an answer but you dont like the answer you get - doesn't alter the answer an its not my responsibility the person doesn't like it

dont like the consequences of having bipolar - well learn how to alter the responses to the mood shifts, within an envelope of meds (obviously) - if your not ready to alter it then wait until you are simple. its the speakers agenda - but don't say the response it wrong cos it isn't/.

dont think i can say any more than that reductionist view of it, shouldn't need to and don't want to .

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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 2:55am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
Your responce was handled wrongly, thats my point. you can not and should not use that tone or choice of words when talking to a person about their postion in a difficult and harrowing situation. simple as.

if the car dosnt start cos there is no petrol, and the person complains and is upset about it, the answer is not to yell at them and say "put some god damn petrol in", esp when the scenario in question is not a simple equation. it is to help the person understand that the car wont move first THEN explain to them about the putting in the petrol.

If you sat me down and responded how you did during a counselling session, I would have lost all trust of you and walked out. There is a way to recognise a person's abilities and viewpoint (empathy rather then sympathy remember?) BEFORE jumping in with where they are to go from that viewpoint in order to help themselves. You cant make a horse drink the water after you drag him over, you have to wait for him to do it himself.

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 3:28am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
i think unusually that you have lost something here in what has been going on. obviously what you are saying is correct but i dont really think thats what has been happening.

for a start off whats been said between s and i has already been said about ten times in the last 2 months. second im not 'counselling' her anyway, and to be honest there is actually an oft repeated pattern in the dialogue, the one that just takes you back to where one started which is about where you came in to it yestrday.

im not leading anyone any where

ive spent inordinate amounts of time simply conveying the idea that there is a response to the thing the person is wishing to happen. having explained it every whch way the person still has the contradiction of bemoaning the lack of the thing that is being offered to him/her. by the health service of this country, by her own words up there in that particular health trust

given that the person has to cope with the vagaries of bp neverthe less it is still unrealistic to say " i wont be seeing that psychiatrist again" when the self same person is asking/reqiring/needing the thing the psychiatrist has. Thats the blog 3 days ago. simply pointing out that contradiction isn't much to do with counselling etc.

the bit that is is that that behaviour is coming out of a misconstrued belief about bipolar, and that is not my opinion but really self-evident.

so in the end i say rather bluntly ' look if you want something take it, or stop wasting everybody's compassion and concern in the masquerade of being some kind of social commentary - although we all agree that the blog is more than just that. but in terms of health issues its fundamentally misleading to state that healt care options are missing when in fact they are not, by her own evidence. they may not be quite what she wants, but they are there.

the more i question my agenda here the less i think i've got one other than simply guidance in the 'guidance and advice' sense.

i hope that allows you a less jaundiced view of my actions or words or whatever

the autonomy remains with the speaker and has done, except where the view is clearly misrepresenting the actuality of the situation in terms of actual healthcare practice and protocols - remembering they're not my protocols but those of the health care system and those in it

hope that sound s better to you Crazy, cos i respect your wise and balanced temprement.

actuaally , finally the evidence is that that is not how i act as a counsellor, inexperienced i may be, though certainly not in the actualite of mental health itself, I am nevertheless working currently with clients at NHS Service Level B1, AM QUALIFIED SO TO DO, AM SUBJECT TO SUPERVISION OF COURSE AS WELL AS THE UTMOST fuck capslock sorryscrutiny fom the agency itself and my trainer., not forgetting the BACP ethical framework. There is no contract beyond common courtesy and respect between Seaneen and myself.

C

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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 3:43am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
Look as I said above numerous amount of times, I dont believe you had bad intent, I dont think you were just being mean or trying to hurt her. I know you meant well. But that still dosnt excuse the tone in which it was said - NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES IT HAS BEEN SAID BEFORE!

Im sorry if it came across that you were counselling her, I was mearly trying to point out that with the counselling process and teachings in mind, you should know better. I am not a counsellor, I dont seek it nor do I attempt to counsel people I come across yet I do take into account the information and practices that I have learnt as a result of it, as that is the point of life. to take what you have learnt and use it in life.
To use your imagery above, if you are a trained machanic and you are sitting watching the person in distress, you may not be able fix the car, or even try to. but you will use your knowledge of being a machanic to prevent the person hitting it with a screw driver in the hopes of restarting it....

Im not angry at you Chris, Im angry at the post. you are still a very intelligent and decent person, you still have my respect.

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 4:04am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
thats nice of you to say and thank you. 2b honest i think things have become mightily confused and as i said to S just earlier perhaps the best thing to do is just celebrate her great achievement with the award.

Be sure irealise the difference between the clien'ts agenda and th eposition of the counsellor.

So Seaneen if your still hanging out here welldone, take what helps from everything i've said to you since March, and give the rest to the penguis cool. and write a play!

and Crazy your an Irish gem too

stay cool x

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 27th, 2007 5:55am Post subject: Our self excluding little club
As your online at the moment S hope your cool with that, and you get what you want.

Respect to you.

Chris

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