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Nitro


Member

Posted Fri Oct 30th, 2009 6:22am Post subject: Pain Crisis

I wanted to share some things with any member here who might experience chronic pain ( CP ) and have experienced the absurd and often confounding methods that pain management doctors use.

Fortunately, there's a voice crying out in the wilderness against the lunacy occurring in the medical field that creates hostility towards the patient suffering chronic physical pain: Dr. Alexander DeLuca, who is now a board member of the PRN ( Pain Relief Network ). The PRN has a great website: http://www.painreliefnetwork.org and a forum you can participate in not to mention tons of information for those with CP.

Here's an intro to Dr.DeLuca. I recommend watching all the vids in his list when you find the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwL02bEq5Dw

He's a very thoughtful scientist and gives as much thought to what he's saying. He quit practicing medicine so he COULD speak out about the abuse of medicine by the courts and police. As he said, if he tried to speak out while having a working practice, he would immediately become a target by the DEA and possibly arrested as some of his peers have been.

The War On Drugs, started in the 80's and 90's here in America has been an abyssmal failure. I mean, it really did next to nothing. Because of that, they've now turned their sights on the medical world and focused it intensly on those doctors who practice pain management ( often called 'physiatrists' - that's not a 'psychiatrist' btw ).
The DEA's relentless and dogged, and misguided, policies and procedures are hostile to a doctor trying to practice good medicine. Medicine based on science acquired over hundreds of years to do what? To reduce human suffering. But the DEA has stigmatied the medicines invented to reduce chronic pain. Anyway, watch the vids. He explains all this much better than I do.

Really? Wow.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 8:00pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

The absolute madness that is our DEA ( which no other country has, btw ) and federal regulations as applied not only to the miserable state of our health care, but also now inserts itself on Free Speech:

http://painreliefnetwork.org/blog/pain-relief-advo.....ee-speech/

Siobhan Reynolds, the found of the Pain Relief Network, ( which is making known things that the pharmacuetical companies and DEA do not want patients to know ), has been told that she has a right to free speech, but it's going to cost her $400 a day!!!!!

Here is an interivew with her as she recounts her own experience with someone in pain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApU8lpYBni4

WAKE UP AMERICAN CITIZENS - YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK BY YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

Really? Wow.

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Nitro


Member

Posted Wed Nov 4th, 2009 3:05pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

Wow, there's not even one u.s. citizen who cares about this?

Maybe the rest of the world is right. Maybe we really are stupid.

Hey, I hear Jennifer Lopez has a brand newn line of fashion jeans coming out. Oh yeahhhhhh

rofl..

Really? Wow.

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exoskeleton


Member

Posted Fri Nov 6th, 2009 5:50am Post subject: Pain Crisis

I read the first post, watched some videos, etc. but I do not have pain so I didn't respond. I barely check the zero room. I figure the government is doing a lot of bad things, and it's nice to know about this one. the $400/d is wild.

sockdolager.

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gjhsu


Moderator

Posted Fri Nov 6th, 2009 6:11am Post subject: Pain Crisis

For me, it's not about not caring, but rather I'm unable to relate. Sorry. Don't be offended by that.


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Nitro


Member

Posted Fri Nov 6th, 2009 8:48pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

gihsu, I've noticed that many people often do not 'relate' to things until it hits them. Then they wonder why no one pays attention to the situation.

I'm not in poverty and can't relate to those who are. Guess I'll just ignore 'em.

BTW, I'm not offended. I'm in awe.

Really? Wow.

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michael


Member

Posted Fri Nov 6th, 2009 9:38pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

the beginning of the thread says

"I wanted to share some things with any member here who might experience chronic pain ( CP ) ....

so i thought you were specifically looking for people who had experienced it. i'm sorry.

i doubt lack of replies means no one cares.

"HELLO I'M TACTILE !" is an anagram of my name

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Nitro


Member

Posted Sat Nov 7th, 2009 4:08am Post subject: Pain Crisis

I guess I should spend more time clarifying or actually writing what I'd meant to. Most eveyone knows someone affected by the impacts of chronic pain and how getting treatment for it is often very frustrating. You don't have to have it yourself just to be aware of a thing. Increasing awareness, one always hears, is what leads to the help coming to resolve the problem.

Really? Wow.

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gjhsu


Moderator

Posted Sat Nov 7th, 2009 3:27pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

Nitro said:
I'm not in poverty and can't relate to those who are. Guess I'll just ignore 'em.

BTW, I'm not offended. I'm in awe.

Oh, come on... really? Just because people aren't replying to your thread means it's being ignored? I read it, thought about it, and had nothing of substance to add. Having no substance to add, I feel it better to add nothing at all. There is no wrong in that.

Yes, CP is probably a big deal, I don't doubt that at all.


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marzgirl


Member

Posted Sun Nov 8th, 2009 5:43am Post subject: Pain Crisis

Sorry I did not respond before this Nitro. As you know I am a chronic pain sufferer. I think there are several of us that I know of on the forum.
Besides being a pain sufferer, as part of my degree (unfinished) I took a chemical dependancy class. My instructor basically said the same thing mentioned in the video. People with chronic pain who need the medication are not likely to become addicts. On the several occasions I have been prescribed Vicodin and Valium or Flexeril, I was actually conservative about taking them. I often worried that another time/day I would be in more pain so I conserved.

After my MRI confirmed the herniated discs I was still undecided about how to proceed. I intended to put off surgery for as long as possible. The doctor mentioned a fusion and I wa scared shitless. My Uncle had a fusion that did not go well and I absolutly did not want to end up in bed on a morphine pump like he did.

One day before I decided on a discectomy, I got an appt. to see a GP because I was having really bad spasms and pain. Not my regular doc or my neuro doc, but all my records and films are in the system and this
doc was able to look over my history. He chose not too though. Instead he could obviously see that I was overweight he actually said to me "well, you know you are overweight." Very curt he was but I was dumbfounded. I usually give as good as I get, but really I was speechless. He sent me home with regular, REGULAR strength tylenol and renewed my Robaxin. The instructions on the tylenol script was 'take two every 4-6 hrs as needed'.

There are two sides on a coin though. I have had friends and relatives who ABUSE/D either prescriptions or street drugs. Either they were self medicating or just started recreationally and did not need them at all. Some could quit others could not. Another thing my instructor told me in that class is there is an addiction gene basically. Some people can stop when they want, no problem and others cannot. I never could understand how some friends of mine could just smoke cigs socially. Perhaps that is why, some people are predisposed to be addicts and some are just not.

I think it is a fine line. There is not one solution or right answer to make sure everyone who needs pain medication get treated with respect and compassion not as drug seekers and hypochondriacs.

I don't know what the answer is, if there is one.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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marzgirl


Member

Posted Sun Nov 8th, 2009 5:53am Post subject: Pain Crisis

BTW, I have lost 60 lbs and my back still fucking hurts sometimes.
The discectomy helped and I can at least play tennis again and take care of my kids. My problem is degenerative, so I am not sure what will happen next if anything. No doubt loosing weight has helped. I was really upset that it was assumed in my case that because I was overweight it was my fault I had pain. If I was not a 'lazy stay at home mom stuffing her pie hole all day, she would not be in this situation.'

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
~Martin Luther King Jr.~

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Nitro


Member

Posted Sun Nov 8th, 2009 3:20pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

gihsu, I guess what I meant by my response was exactly what you've said: If you have nothing to add, why add anything at all? I guess it just doesn't make sense to me that instead of ignoring a thread one has no interest in, to go on just to say you have no interest. I'm not sure how not to be confused by that.

That's not to say I wasn't being a little shitty in my response. I was, and I'm sorry about that. It was stupid.

Marz, I'm sorry you've gone thru all you have. The idea that, right now, the treatment of chronic pain is tilted so heavily out of favor of those in pain, really needs to be righted. The addictive person will probably find something regardless if there were pharmaceutical drugs or not, like you said.

There's still a tendency, even for doctors, to confuse 'addiction' with 'dependency' but it's more common with non-medical people probably.

If a persons pain cannot be controlled via 'conservative treatment' or hocus pocus, leaving someone in pain because they MIGHT become addicts is not a very good reason to do it.

I think I'm probably adamant about this because people will kill themselves before they'll face a future of daily, unremitting, untreated or poorly treated pain. Prior to that, many people WILL turn to street drugs to get any relief they can. Given dealers aren't in the business of medical ethics, it's a dangerous route. So what's left?

The medical community. And most of them are running scared right now...

Really? Wow.

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ChrisGurr


Member

Posted Mon Nov 30th, 2009 10:34pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

Nitro said:
I wanted to share some things with any member here who might experience chronic pain ( CP ) and have experienced the absurd and often confounding methods that pain management doctors use.

Fortunately, there's a voice crying out in the wilderness against the lunacy occurring in the medical field that creates hostility towards the patient suffering chronic physical pain: Dr. Alexander DeLuca, who is now a board member of the PRN ( Pain Relief Network ). The PRN has a great website: http://www.painreliefnetwork.org and a forum you can participate in not to mention tons of information for those with CP.

Here's an intro to Dr.DeLuca. I recommend watching all the vids in his list when you find the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwL02bEq5Dw

He's a very thoughtful scientist and gives as much thought to what he's saying. He quit practicing medicine so he COULD speak out about the abuse of medicine by the courts and police. As he said, if he tried to speak out while having a working practice, he would immediately become a target by the DEA and possibly arrested as some of his peers have been.

The War On Drugs, started in the 80's and 90's here in America has been an abyssmal failure. I mean, it really did next to nothing. Because of that, they've now turned their sights on the medical world and focused it intensly on those doctors who practice pain management ( often called 'physiatrists' - that's not a 'psychiatrist' btw ).
The DEA's relentless and dogged, and misguided, policies and procedures are hostile to a doctor trying to practice good medicine. Medicine based on science acquired over hundreds of years to do what? To reduce human suffering. But the DEA has stigmatied the medicines invented to reduce chronic pain. Anyway, watch the vids. He explains all this much better than I do.

Hi, i am new to this forum but i'm glad i found someone talking about chronic pain, and it's mismanagement by many in the medical profession. I have now had an extremely aggressive and active form of migraine for 12 years. after my condition worsened i was told by a consultant that i had caused the condition by taking a medication (imigran or Imitrex as it is knowen in the US) which was freely prescribed by my GP. With great difficulty, and unbearable levels of pain, i stopped taking the drug for six months. I was prescribed a high dose of an antiepyleptic drug (epylim) during this time. The outcome of this was that i was so sedated by the epylim that i could barely talk, and there was no improvement in my migraine. despite this the consultant will not consider any-other explanation for my condition and the head of the neurology DPT will no longer treat anyone with migraine who takes Imigran as they view them as drug addicts. They do however think that i should try upping the dose of epylim. maybe they like there patients silent or unconscious.


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Nitro


Member

Posted Tue Dec 1st, 2009 4:18pm Post subject: Pain Crisis

Hi Chris...

Dr.De Luca makes the point again and again that now the pain management community, meaning doctors, are 'towing the party line' and thus approach people in chronic pain in terms of 'reducing their meds or getting them off of them, instead of their optimal functioning and quality of Life'. It's this mentality that you're running into and that so many who suffer with chronic pain do. In the states, we have a non-medical authority essentially dictating to doctors how they should practice medicine. This is a horrible insult to the very concept of science and damages the patient-doctor relationship 'beyond all recognition'. The patient and doctor are put at odds, because the doctor's worried about being hauled off to trial for being a 'drug pusher'.

I'm sorry you're experiencing what you are. Is it possible to find a different doctor? If your doctor doesn't know a thing, ask him/her who might and get a referral. Anymore, the patient has been put in a place to be very aggressive because if you're too passive, yes, they'll be much relieved that you've gone quietly away because they probably have ten other patients who WON'T be bullied.

Really? Wow.

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TheElephant


Member

Posted Wed Dec 2nd, 2009 8:48am Post subject: Pain Crisis

Sorry to hear you're having to fight against the pain and the authorities.

I don't actually have chronic pain, but it's a possibility down the line.

I've had a diagnosis of ME, which I don't have a lot of confidence in.

I think what Nitro described as 'towing the party line' is the reason. The diagnosis I've had can't be reliable, and may as well be CFS. Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, as far as I can tell, was a term conjured up by a bunch of psychiatrists that are now firmly in bed with big insurance, and gather all sorts of people in under the umbrella term, as long as they are 'tired a lot'.
So many people are misdiagnosed, and only have one NHS treatment of CBT/GET (in the UK anyway, CBT - Cognitive Behaviour Therapy, GET - Graded Exercise Therapy).
In the case of actual ME (Myalgic Encephalomyolitis), post exercise malaise is on r of the main symptoms, and exercise is likely to make the condition worse.
Potentially there are thousands of others with Lyme disease, Fibromyalgia, mitochondria, and many other condition, that are misdiagnosed, and effectively left untreated.

So if I do have ME itself, chronic pain is almost a certainty in the future.

In the meantime, I'm reading up and trying to steel myself to find out what's really wrong, and then either find the right treatment, or come to terms with whatever limitations I may have. In the face of a health service that doesn't seem to know it's arse from it's elbow in this field.

On the upside, there is research (largely privately funded) in the USA which may have found a link to a retrovirus, XMRV.
Here in the UK, there is a meeting today, were a group in parliament discuss an inquiry into ME treatment, but it's likely to be a farce. They haven't produced minutes of previous meetings, and spent a long time looking at the 'Lightning Process', rather than conditions effect on children. The third suggestion if you type 'lightning process in to google search adds 'scam'. The homepage for it screams scam to me as well. basically pyramid selling to the desperately ill. (apparently, before you do the course you have to sign to say if it does not work you take full responsibility as you have not done the 'work' properly!).


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