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Aoibheann


Member

Posted Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 2:09pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
What a band man! I was in love them in times gone by. Good times they were....

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Gertrude Susanne


Member

Posted Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 2:49pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
"incidents in my memory" ? if you watch talk shows (which I sometimes cannot avoid when back home because a family member tends to have the telly running without actually watching a programme, so I am referring mainly to German programmes which we get in Austria via cable TV), you will find that politeness, courtesy and respect are not exactly the principles on which those conversations are based. Given the fact that many teenagers watch TV indiscriminately during the day this language and conduct will rub off on them eventually. It usually takes a third party to establish some sort of order and civilised behaviour. As we say in Vienna "The sound makes the music", now some people definitely get the sound wrong !

You mention that the absence of violence in stories can sometimes have negative effects on children. All the fairy tales I remember reading were fairly violent (Brothers Grimm, Wilhelm Busch). (How can traditional fairy tales be watered down without changing the whole story beyond recognition?). I believe that reading fairy tales is an important element in a child´s development, emphasis being placed on reading (or even being read to). In this way, they can imagine what the characters in the story look like and in some instances, when events turn too gruesome, even tone down the frightfulness to a level they can cope with. Unlike when watching TV where they are confronted with the producer´s idea of the characters, and atrocities are "spelt out", perhaps being too explicit for some young viewers.

As regards Point of View: I personally find it highly entertaining (and I am being sarcastic here) because I cannot believe that someone will take the time to contact the BBC about - in some instances - petty things. And I find it even more amusing how seriously this is being dealt with ! Some scapegoat is to be found, best drag the competent Programme Director before the camera for him/her to give an explanation of why things went wrong and promising that it will never happen again, never ever again, EVER! Cross my heart and wish to die! Oh pulease!

And the odd viewers´ reactions cannot possibly represent the general public´s attitude with regard to a programme, now that would be exceedingly patronising... No less patronising than some so-called expert panel telling me which is the best documentary or best show - I don´t need their verdict, I am old enough to make up my own mind about all that... so to Hades with the BAFTAs

I am afraid that thanks to our IT department I cannot look at the link now and (I am more of a BeeGees girl anyway, they never used any swearwords during interviews...)
But I reckon the SexPistol´s vocabulary is far more outrageous than the bawdy words Mozart used in some of his letters X-D

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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 3:01pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
SEX PISTOLS!!! \m/8)\m/

Great music. Classic clip.

Reality programming certainly violates taste and decency and promotes a culture of 'fame at all costs' over talent, intelligence and all other qualities which are deserving of public attention and approbation. One could argue that manufactured pop groups like the Spice Girls promoted such an ethos even before programmes like Pop Idol came again.
It's interesting to me that the programme is called 'Pop Idol' rather than 'Pop Singer', emphasising the value of fame over music.

That's what was getting me. You're being told that this person is an idol someone to be looked up to and fawn over. Then at the same time these kinds of shows and the media as well are placing a high value on the cult of celebrity. They obsessed over celebrities who have done nothing of interest or value. They're just a waste of space. Then this all leads to teenagers and young adults thinking they can get their fifteen minutes of fame via applying to Big Brother etc and then get a career out of it like people like Jade Goody have managed. They don't want to work for it and do anything creative or work their way up. They want it handed to them.

You mention that the absence of violence in stories can sometimes have negative effects on children. All the fairy tales I remember reading were fairly violent (Brothers Grimm, Wilhelm Busch). (How can traditional fairy tales be watered down without changing the whole story beyond recognition?).

Very easily Gerti. Just go in a nursery and read the fairytales they give children now. They're sanitised and watered down from the fairytales they're based on like Rumpelstiltskin, Snow White etc. All things like death is completely taken out. It's not toned down it's cut out altogether and alternative stuff happen like the villain gets a tummyache or falls down and rolls down the hill and for some reason doesn't come back to bother them again. You can get some real sugary stuff now. I think the stories children are being given now are too soft really. When I was a child we had shows like Grim Tales and The Storyteller that did not hold back from showing us how violent and disturbing fairytales really were. Then of course the books didn't hold back either. I think children's television was better in the 80s. There was more violence and fighting and stuff, now you don't get that the same. You don't get shows like Conan The Adventurer which show you the weapons, the slavery and the maggots in the prison food. It's all sugar coated now.

As regards Point of View: I personally find it highly entertaining (and I am being sarcastic here) because I cannot believe that someone will take the time to contact the BBC about - in some instances - petty things. And I find it even more amusing how seriously this is being dealt with ! Some scapegoat is to be found, best drag the competent Programme Director before the camera for him/her to give an explanation of why things went wrong and promising that it will never happen again, never ever again, EVER! Cross my heart and wish to die! Oh pulease!

I can believe it. People do write into the BBC and compain about stupid shit. Isn't there someone on here who works in some department somewhere that deals with that kind of crap everyday? I'm sure there was. Then you look at sites like Nitpickers.com and you realise the full extent of how sad some people really are. There really are people who whine about petty shit, they don't represent everyone who watches or listens to these shows but they do exist. But what's harder to believe is whether anyone takes them seriously. Actually no that wouldn't surprise me either. Not in this day and age of endless forms, evaluations, surveys and the customer is always right no it's not unbelievable.

Assuming direct control...

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Gertrude Susanne


Member

Posted Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 3:25pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
Just go in a nursery and read the fairytales they give children now. They're sanitised and watered down from the fairytales they're based on like Rumpelstiltskin, Snow White etc. All things like death is completely taken out. It's not toned down it's cut out altogether and alternative stuff happen like the villain gets a tummyache or falls down and rolls down the hill and for some reason doesn't come back to bother them again. You can get some real sugary stuff now.

I´ll do that, well, I´ll have a look in the local library... not because I don´t believe you, just to have a read. I was not aware of that.

I can believe it. ... But what's harder to believe is whether anyone takes them seriously. Actually no that wouldn't surprise me either. Not in this day and age of endless forms, evaluations, surveys and the customer is always right no it's not unbelievable.

You should watch it when it comes back on. They DO ask some BBC employee to comment on the issue they now even invite a member of the public to look into a certain matter - the mind boggles
I know that it happens, but all I can say is: those people should get out more Reminds me a little of that one ABOFAL sketch where Hugh sends all those letters to various newspapers - get the straightjacket out X-D X-D

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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Fri Jun 22nd, 2007 3:33pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
or that Saturday Night Fry sketch where that woman describes herself as a complainer and complains about shows she hasn't even seen. Seriously if they don't like certain kinds of shows they should switch it off or turn over instead of trying to get it cancelled and spoiling other people's fun.

Assuming direct control...

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 8:10am Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
Just go in a nursery and read the fairytales they give children now. They're sanitised and watered down from the fairytales they're based on like Rumpelstiltskin, Snow White etc. All things like death is completely taken out. It's not toned down it's cut out altogether and alternative stuff happen like the villain gets a tummyache or falls down and rolls down the hill and for some reason doesn't come back to bother them again. You can get some real sugary stuff now.

I´ll do that, well, I´ll have a look in the local library... not because I don´t believe you, just to have a read. I was not aware of that.



I don't think amyl was referring to books, but rather to the way in which teachers and parents tell them, usually from memory. When was the last time you heard Little Red Riding Hood end with the sleeping wolf cut open by an axe, then (after Little Red Riding hodd and her grandmother come out of its stomach), he is filled with stones and stitched up again. He is rudely awoken and, on seeing the woodsman, panics, runs out of the house and falls to his doom thanks to the weight inside him?

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Gertrude Susanne


Member

Posted Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 8:59am Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
oh was she not referring to books??
Just go in a nursery and read the fairytales they give children now.

I last read the story about 35 years ago, standard literature for Austrian kids, plus loads more you have never heard of (equally brutal). I shall have a look in one of the big bookstores when I go back to find out whether they have been watered down in the original versions as well, or whether our kids are still confronted with the full facts as it were... I´ll let you know

Mr Steed, you have our views regarding POV, what are yours then??? Please share them with us....

amyl: SATURDAY NIGHT FRY

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 9:17am Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
oh was she not referring to books??
Just go in a nursery and read the fairytales they give children now.

I last read the story about 35 years ago, standard literature for Austrian kids, plus loads more you have never heard of (equally brutal). I shall have a look in one of the big bookstores when I go back to find out whether they have been watered down in the original versions as well, or whether our kids are still confronted with the full facts as it were... I´ll let you know

Mr Steed, you have our views regarding POV, what are yours then??? Please share them with us....

amyl: SATURDAY NIGHT FRY

amyl may have been referring to books, so go ahead and look (how do you know amyl's gender? I still haven't worked it out and I thought I had figured out most of the people here).

Points of View, eh? Haven't seen it for years and I probably remember parodies better than real comments. I can remember before Anne Robinson, when Barry Took was the presenter. If you don't know who he was, he was one of the major British comedy scriptwriters of the 1960s along with Marty Feldman and Barry Cryer. However, presenting POV rather damaged his reputation as he came across as a rather dull, humourless chap.
There was a sort of junior edition once on ITV and I wrote to it once to comment on the absence of the Human Torch from the Fantastic Four cartoon, so I was once as guilty as most correspondents. Plus I'm a Doctor Who fan and people who like a programme which is nearly 45 years old tend to spot discrepencies in the continuity often, though saner ones try to ignore it and just enjoy the programme. Monty Python parodied Points of View frequently with its letters of complaint about previous sketches. I certainly would like to have seen letters regarding the 2000 Brasseye special (links to this can be found in the YouTube thread posted by trousermaterial). However, it was a Channel 4 production so one wouldn't find references to it on a BBC programme.
I will give the production team credit for making the show's theme music "When I'm Sixty Four" by The Beatles; a clever choice because of the lyric "Send me a postcard, drop me a line, stating point of view. Indicate precisely what you mean to say: 'Yours sincerely, wasting away.'"
Is there some kind of Austrian equivalent?

By the way, where is everybody? I'd like to hear stuff from Soupy Twist, Canzonett, Atari, trouser material, boffinbabe, Curtains...

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Gertrude Susanne


Member

Posted Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 9:36am Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
John Steed wrote
amyl may have been referring to books, so go ahead and look (how do you know amyl's gender? I still haven't worked it out and I thought I had figured out most of the people here).

:-// good point, Freudian slip perhaps, apologies if I´m wrong, amyl_nitrate :-//

I know Marty Feldmann, he was brilliant!

Weren´t those letters usually read out by Eric Idle, my all-time-favourite Monty Python

I have never watched Dr Who (I´ll probably get banned now by Atari...)

Is there some kind of Austrian equivalent?

Not that I´m aware of, but that means nothing, I have lost touch in the past seven years. And Austrian TV is absolute crap now, we get all those American sitcoms, the only highlight is a programme called Universum which is on once a week and is in fact based on BBC documentaries (usually by David Attenborough). So they´d better not introduce anything remotely similar to POV as they might get swamped with poison pen letters

Must go now, btw thanks for the link, Mr Steed - Sam is so sweeeeet

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 9:44am Post subject: Paperweight-a-week


I know Marty Feldmann, he was brilliant!



Took and Feldman were a writing team and were responsible for 2 great 1960s BBC radio comedies: "Round The Horne" and "Beyond Our Ken", featuring Kenneth Horne, Kenneth Williams, Hugh Paddick (he was one of the camp actors in the Blackadder the Third episode where the prince takes elocution lessons), Betty Marsden (Terry Scott's wife with the awful laugh from Carry On Camping) and Bill Pertwee (the ARP warden from Dad's Army). Check them out on the BBC radio website sometime - they're always repeating episodes of them.

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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 4:17pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
John Steed wrote
amyl may have been referring to books, so go ahead and look (how do you know amyl's gender? I still haven't worked it out and I thought I had figured out most of the people here).

:-// good point, Freudian slip perhaps, apologies if I´m wrong, amyl_nitrate :-//

I'm female. You might have seen my post saying that in the Gender thread that was stickied along with the Age thread back when this board was still brand new.

And yes I was talking about books! Children's tv is just as bad. It's all so sickeningly sweet with everyone having ott politeness which is nice but I find it a bit grating after a while. It's all softer and sweeter than when I was a child. We had intelligently wrote cartoons by Cosgrove Hall and then action cartoons coming in from America by the dozen. Then there were the dramas which had a bit of grit too them - what drama do they get now? Nowt. All I can think of is Johnny and the Bomb and Shoebox Zoo. There needs to be more dramas made for children, in the 80s and 90s there were great dramas both realist gritty stuff and fantasy based shows.

Weren´t those letters usually read out by Eric Idle, my all-time-favourite Monty Python

Yeah he read those out. I loved those bits. I think Terry Jones sometimes read the letters out too.

Assuming direct control...

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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Tue Jun 26th, 2007 6:38pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
When are we starting the next article? Are we ready for moving on or are we still discussing the first one? Which would we discuss next?

Assuming direct control...

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Gertrude Susanne


Member

Posted Tue Jun 26th, 2007 7:26pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
When are we starting the next article? Are we ready for moving on or are we still discussing the first one? Which would we discuss next?

I think Mr Steed is tied up - another exam coming up tomorrow...
We shall have to be patient

What I find peculiar is the fact that there have been members moaning about the standard of the posts, now there is a chance to make a useful contribution and what happens - NOTHING *wanders off shaking her head in disbelief"

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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Tue Jun 26th, 2007 8:44pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week

What I find peculiar is the fact that there have been members moaning about the standard of the posts, now there is a chance to make a useful contribution and what happens - NOTHING *wanders off shaking her head in disbelief"

I know it amazes me too. I remember memebers saying they wanted threads with more substance, now they get one they don't want to know it seems.

Assuming direct control...

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AxmxZ


Moderator

Posted Tue Jun 26th, 2007 8:48pm Post subject: Paperweight-a-week
Speaking of sanitized fairy tales, have any of you seen "Evan Almighty"? They turned the most infamous story of vengeance in the history of Western literature - the obliteration of an entire world for its sins - into some sort of an encouragment to take your kids hiking once in a while!

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