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Flossy


Member

Posted Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 11:01am Post subject: Room 101
Actually, no. Not even close. I can't agree with you there in the slightest.

Although I have courteously avoided using the kinds of words you find objectionable. I hope you will note that.

Why thank ya maam! Real kind!

Your Skepticism serves you proud too!

Check out the Argument scetch from Monty Python.

Fantabulosa!

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ysabella


Member

Posted Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 7:59pm Post subject: Room 101
WAHHH Flossy's so mean in that passive-aggressive backhanded way! I'm so hurt! My weak little skeptical self can't fight back against the incredible cold logic of playground-level discourse.

*runs away bawling*

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Flossy


Member

Posted Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 8:07pm Post subject: Room 101
No! No!

Come Back ysabella!

I take it all back! (what ever it was)

Please come and play again!

I'll even show you my matchbox full of worms and the conkers I keep in my trouser pocket!

Seriously though! Any chance you can vioce your disagreements?

Or shall we put this little "discourse" to bed?

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ysabella


Member

Posted Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 8:28pm Post subject: Room 101
Of course I can, but (a)I have to work right now so I can't write some huge post, and (b)I'm not sure this really fits in a thread about a TV show anyway.

I will say, you seem to think skeptics don't deal in ideas, and can't be idealists. I'm really don't think this is an issue with the British use of the word, because I know several British skeptics online and a few in real life. So where is this coming from?

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Flossy


Member

Posted Tue Apr 3rd, 2007 8:55pm Post subject: Room 101
Well, way back in the mists of time (at the begining of the thread) I began by asking about superstition and the likleyhood of coincidence! Somehow it's shot off down the road of Skepticism!

Sceptical of those who postulate the existence of supernatural foces for instance? That would be a valid connection what?

I dont think that Skeptical people are devoid of any ideas though. I just think that It would be a shame if any of us were skeptics only, in the classical sense. Then a person might have a problem. To just be sceptical about everything I believe would be mentaly unhealthy! Where is trust, friendship and personal intellectual developement!

We are all skeptics in one way, shape or form and positivley bursting with things to say and ideas to explore at the same time, but again, skepticism is just one approach to the world of exploration, a starting point, a good place to begin a questioning journey through the world.

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ysabella


Member

Posted Wed Apr 4th, 2007 9:25am Post subject: Room 101
Take for example a quote from my very first contribution to the this site...........

"To raise a political idea, challenge someones belief system, to talk about art, music, theatre, to broach any of these subjects with your average Joe can envoke a tirade of abuse. The Murdoch media syndrome is generating a population of mental mutants who just quote from the pages of the Sun (British right wing tabloid) when they need a quick opinion. Any attempt at independant thought is viewed with suspicion! This is not the fault of " the masses" but represents the systematic emptying out of peoples intelligence, to subordinate the population into accepting consumerism which will ultimately lead to our distruction if we dont do something about it!"
I don't think consumerism is being forced on anyone. It just happens to be incredibly seductive.

Scepticism, like Marxism like Materialism like Science or any rational philosophy, is under attack from the religious right. Through the control of the media these demagogues assert thier irrational agenda which subordinates peoples minds to religiosity and predjudice. It's called divide and rule, pitting one section of the population against another through the imposition of ideas and playing on peoples fears.
I'm not sure I think Marxism is rational, and I would not list it with those other words as if it was similar, but I will agree that some people in the religious right consider it a threat. I feel that is true in the USA.

In Britain for instance there is a govt move to give trust status to our high schools which will enable business interests to buy into education which will give them influence over our curriculum. It is already clear that certain business types with religious fundamentalist views and who believe in creationism are already lining up to invest. They will be able to push their ideas through and challenge the scientific foundations of our understanding of history and biology and physics and archeology and literature, pushing religious education further to the center of the curriculum.
My husband attended school in Britain from age 4 to age 8. The praying in school is one of the keys to why he is an atheist today. So I wouldn't worry too much. Increased religious pressure in the schools may well churn out more hardline atheists.

This fits perfectly with the idea that they in effect groom the youth into accepting these ideas which supposedly creates a maliable and unquestioning work force.Who are "they" when you're saying this here?

I do believe that your country has been operating this system for years.
I'm not sure who told you that. We generally have a democratic-ish system where parents can get involved with school boards, and in areas where religious fundamentalists are a majority, they tend to use this to try to make changes in curriculum. One example would be the school district in Cobb County, Georgia (Marietta - not far from Atlanta) that passed a resolution to print these little stickers that were stuck in the covers of biology textbooks asserting that the theory of evolution is "just a theory" and it should be "read and considered critically," or something like that. There is no funding pressure from these groups, just an organized and vocal group trying to assert influence in the more-or-less democratic process we already had.
Of course, people can set up private schools and teach whatever bizarre claptrap they want. They may not get accredited, but they can operate. Some of the accredited schools are weird enough, like Waldorf schools.

The trouble is though it doesn't work! Young Americans are no less questioning than any other groups of young people around the world. You can fill peoples heads with anything you want but it's the social, material questions which determine peoples conciousness such as housing, health, jobs and money!
I can see what you mean. I reckon I agree with that.

Having to struggle against irrationality is damed inconvenient and represents a set back for human thought but there are millions of Skeptics and Athiests and Materialists and Scientists. They just aren't very well organised and cant agree that the common enemy is the capitalist class and that power needs to be wrested away from them and replaced with a workers democracy, that is a democratic system which involves the organisation of our rescources at production and distribution level. Basically a democratic plan decided by the people themselves, in the workplaces and housing schemes!
You lost me completely there. I'm really very pro-capitalism. It has its flaws, but I think it's the best way to organize resources.

Skepticism has it's role to play in this. It can be the first and awakening thoughts for someone who is begining to question his/her world. We all go through this phase, but if you want to understand society in all it's manifestations then you need to embace the history of ideas and their impact upon the world!
As I said, skeptics aren't strangers to ideas. I really don't understand what you're saying here at all. Why is it desirable to move on from being a skeptic to some other non-skeptic state? You find an idea so sexy that you don't care whether there's evidence for it or not?

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Flossy


Member

Posted Wed Apr 4th, 2007 11:08am Post subject: Room 101
Sorry ysabella I cant master this quoting system so I will reference your comments as I go!

I'm afriad "consumerism" is being forced down our throats! It's just that the majority of people have become so used to it now that it goes un-noticed and unchallenged!

What are the alternatives? Do we ever get to hear them? Not a bit of it!

The car for instance, is deliberately manufactured to last a specific length of time so that we are forced to buy another one. Why does the system of production and distribution not make products that last! We know it is possible and yet those who own and control these means of production choose not too! A complete waste of planitary resources in nearly every area of production! And we are worried about the environment? The system demands that profits be made!

Profits are the driving force of capitalism. Without private profit the system breaks down. All very fine and well you may ask but the capitalist has choices on this score. They may even have a sense of social reponsibility and reinvest in the economy and local communities, protect their workers from unemployment by taking a cut in profits temporarily, but then again the system doesnt just work at the individual level. The SYSTEM demands that profit be made and that spheres of investment be engaged with and new markets be found.

This class of people at the top of society, no matter what their individual morals may be, preside over a system which expoits children in the far east, endorses virtual slavery conditions, has impoverished millions of Africans and Asians and drives people from the land they have lived on for thousands of years. The American government, in the name of money, power and imperial greed (all based upon the system of profit) has murdered it's way across Iraq causing the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and thousands of young soldiers.

If not in the name of capitalism then why?

What would be the point?

Do they realy enjoy destroying another country? Just for a bit of fun?

In 1953 in Iran, in 1973 in Chile, in 1966 in Indonesia, in Nicaragua in the eighties the CIA and US governments of the day instigated movements to overthrow democratically elected governments and replace them by force with stooges who were sympathetic to US interests. What were those interests?

Business interests and strategic long term interests to defend their access to rescources.

Money, Power, Profits! Capitalism!!

So the "They" I refer to are the capitalist class and their political representatives in governments and parliments around the world. The control of information through the media, the fact that our information systems are owned and controlled by the same vested interests. Does this not worry you?
It sure as hell worries me! A tiny handfull of a few hundred extremely wealthy people own and control the way we see the world through TV and the newspapers? The viel must be lifted from the eyes of the world to who these people are and what they represent.

Dont worry, I'm not having a go at America! It's the despicable capitalist class and their system I rail against. It just so happens that the US is the biggest imperial power at the moment.


Education!

How are the American schools funded? Guess I would like to find that out before I make any further comments on this question!

I would draw your attention to an interesting interview (you can get the interview on google video) with Norman Dodd, a American financier, who describes moves on behalf of the elite in America as far back as the thirties to subordinate the US education system to a hidden agenda via the top institutes, whereby they generate a curiculum which is designed to promote a specific consumer mentality! Check it out!

Certainly a lot of people will recoil at the increasing imposition of religious doctrine in schools and this may well throw up more atheists but that's not the point!

The struggle is against irrational belief systems! We have to wage war against this stuff at every level. At the minute this is happening to our schools and it must be fought!

Marxism, on the other hand, is a rational system of thought. It's just that you have been "told" that it isn't! Aren't you at least a bit "Skeptical" about what you are "told" on this score?

Marx, if you took the time to read him, starts from a scientific appreciation of the mechanisms which historically gave rise to capitalism. His volumes of Capital describe in minute detail the nature of commodities and the means by which they are traded and the way in which the capitalist class expropriate their profits from the labour of working people. This is why he is hated and misunderstood because he was the first person to clear up the mystery surrounding the capitalist class and their system.

His thought system is dialectical and based upon the premis that all things are in a constant state of flux and change and that social systems are based upon the struggle between the contending classes in given historical epochs!

What we have is a perspective based upon some very observable historical, economic, material and political processes. Hardly irrational!

The future though, to refer to my previous comments, is about the greater levels of democracy and the ability of the mass of people to influence the way we live. This has been rolled back in recent decades and replaced by a dictatorship of media control within very limited democratic parameters. No real democracy infact! The old saying "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets elected!" is very true! It is controlled very conciously by those in positions of power.

Real democracy will be the control of our rescources and production methods by those who do the work. Real democracy will control the planets recources and plan and organise human needs. The real market regulator will be human need not human wants. Real wealth will be in the work that we do not the money we can make.

That new rising system, socialism, will unleash human potential. What capitalism has shown us is the posibilities, it's just that capitalism can no longer deliver to meet those aspirations!

Capitalism is destroying iself, it's up to working people to see it off once and for all!

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Gravesy


Member

Posted Wed Apr 4th, 2007 2:13pm Post subject: Room 101
Just on the subject of scepticism; I find myself as something of a retrospective sceptic. I can't help but find myself duped into believing something only to become a militant sceptic minutes, hours, days, years later. More importantly I hate myself for it, that moment when you realise that someone has gone out of their way to feed you a false truth and more importantly that I fell for it. Damn them all.

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Flossy


Member

Posted Wed Apr 4th, 2007 2:33pm Post subject: Room 101
You should be naturaly sceptical of such things!

We learn through experience!

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ysabella


Member

Posted Thu Apr 5th, 2007 8:18am Post subject: Room 101
Sorry ysabella I cant master this quoting system so I will reference your comments as I go!
No problem.

I'm afriad "consumerism" is being forced down our throats! It's just that the majority of people have become so used to it now that it goes un-noticed and unchallenged!

What are the alternatives? Do we ever get to hear them? Not a bit of it!
Surely there are voluntary simplicity movements in the UK? Here where I live, there are loads of efforts to give to the needy, to reduce consumption, and to live with a smaller 'footprint.' There are experimental shared housing systems, farming systems, manufacturing systems I live in a capitalist society, but there is plenty of room for collective efforts.
As I say, consumerism is just seductive. It's like the worst of American culture - it's really contagious.

It has upsides. The way Native tribes can make big money running casinos has interesting side-effects. Locally, the Nisqually tribe is buying back the land of the Nisqually River estuary , the last undeveloped estuary on Puget Sound, and restoring it. Colonizing farmers took it, consumer craziness gave it back.

The car for instance, is deliberately manufactured to last a specific length of time so that we are forced to buy another one.
Prove it. I don't accept that as truth.

Why does the system of production and distribution not make products that last! We know it is possible and yet those who own and control these means of production choose not too! A complete waste of planitary resources in nearly every area of production! And we are worried about the environment? The system demands that profits be made!

Profits are the driving force of capitalism. Without private profit the system breaks down. All very fine and well you may ask but the capitalist has choices on this score. They may even have a sense of social reponsibility and reinvest in the economy and local communities, protect their workers from unemployment by taking a cut in profits temporarily, but then again the system doesnt just work at the individual level. The SYSTEM demands that profit be made and that spheres of investment be engaged with and new markets be found.
But consumers have power, too. And if consumers show that they want to buy from responsible companies, that they want to buy locally grown "slow" food, that they want efficient cars, that they want to know the conditions under which the work is done, the profit motive will drive producers to meet the demand.

This class of people at the top of society, no matter what their individual morals may be, preside over a system which expoits children in the far east, endorses virtual slavery conditions, has impoverished millions of Africans and Asians and drives people from the land they have lived on for thousands of years. The American government, in the name of money, power and imperial greed (all based upon the system of profit) has murdered it's way across Iraq causing the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's and thousands of young soldiers.

If not in the name of capitalism then why?

What would be the point?

Do they realy enjoy destroying another country? Just for a bit of fun?
It's hardly that simple. We actually did what the UN signed on to do - we enforced the treaty from the end of the first Gulf War, which Iraq never honored even once (didn't send the 600 captured Kuwaitis home, didn't prove they did not have NBCs aka WMDs, etc.).
France, Russia, and China sold billions of dollars worth of weapons to the Baathist regime, the very arms used to repress and murder the population of Iraq, and they set up oil deals with Saddam (PDF map of Iraq - PDF list of foreign investors in Iraq - page 2 of that - this page links to downloadable PDFs of arms sales to Iraq) to take place when the sanctions were lifted. If you look, Total's patch is right on the Majnoon oil fields. That's where the Marsh Arabs have lived since time immemorial, ~5000 years. Saddam wanted to drain the marsh to facilitate the future oil development, so he forcibly relocated the Marsh Arabs and killed the reticent ones. So while the UN should have encouraged arms taken up against Iraq a second time, it could not, because so many Security Council member states had vast oil stakes in Iraq.
I'm not sure whether those contracts will be resumed. There was at least a possibility but I'm having trouble finding more recent reports.

In 1953 in Iran, in 1973 in Chile, in 1966 in Indonesia, in Nicaragua in the eighties the CIA and US governments of the day instigated movements to overthrow democratically elected governments and replace them by force with stooges who were sympathetic to US interests. What were those interests?

Business interests and strategic long term interests to defend their access to rescources.

Money, Power, Profits! Capitalism!!
I'll have to come back to this. I don't know much about those movements and I have to look them up. That will take time that I don't really have at the moment (son's 1st birthday Saturday - family visits aplenty, have to clean house, bake cake, mow lawn, etc.).

So the "They" I refer to are the capitalist class and their political representatives in governments and parliments around the world. The control of information through the media, the fact that our information systems are owned and controlled by the same vested interests. Does this not worry you?
It sure as hell worries me! A tiny handfull of a few hundred extremely wealthy people own and control the way we see the world through TV and the newspapers? The viel must be lifted from the eyes of the world to who these people are and what they represent.
People have been turning any sign of that around. The very low number of news outlets and the awful wire services are being openly criticized and countered by smaller fish, like blog-based pundits. There are some near-monopolies and I'm opposed to those. But this new fractionation of the media is causing ruckus with record companies. Perhaps Clear Channel will be next.

Dont worry, I'm not having a go at America! It's the despicable capitalist class and their system I rail against. It just so happens that the US is the biggest imperial power at the moment.
Eh, I'm used to it anyway. The US is generally the target of people's disgruntlement.

Education!

How are the American schools funded? Guess I would like to find that out before I make any further comments on this question!
Well, the quick version is, publicly funded partly from federal funds (now affected by the infamous "No Child Left Behind" Act), state funds (such as proceeds from state lotteries), and local property taxes. Colleges and universities are kinda similar.
What we call private schools in the States don't take public funding of that sort, although some may get specific government grants; they generally run on tuition and endowments.

I would draw your attention to an interesting interview (you can get the interview on google video) with Norman Dodd, a American financier, who describes moves on behalf of the elite in America as far back as the thirties to subordinate the US education system to a hidden agenda via the top institutes, whereby they generate a curiculum which is designed to promote a specific consumer mentality! Check it out!
Alright.

Certainly a lot of people will recoil at the increasing imposition of religious doctrine in schools and this may well throw up more atheists but that's not the point!

The struggle is against irrational belief systems! We have to wage war against this stuff at every level. At the minute this is happening to our schools and it must be fought!
"Waging war?" That's not the way to do it. The way is to teach and promote critical thinking skills.

Marxism, on the other hand, is a rational system of thought. It's just that you have been "told" that it isn't! Aren't you at least a bit "Skeptical" about what you are "told" on this score?
Oh yeah, I totally believe whatever. I asked some guy at the bus stop and he told me it's rubbish. I guess I'd better believe this now, because some bloke on the Internet said it.



The cute little pointers to what to be skeptical about? Totally irritating. You didn't mention that I should "be skeptical" about cars that can go forever.

Marx, if you took the time to read him, starts from a scientific appreciation of the mechanisms which historically gave rise to capitalism. His volumes of Capital describe in minute detail the nature of commodities and the means by which they are traded and the way in which the capitalist class expropriate their profits from the labour of working people. This is why he is hated and misunderstood because he was the first person to clear up the mystery surrounding the capitalist class and their system.

His thought system is dialectical and based upon the premis that all things are in a constant state of flux and change and that social systems are based upon the struggle between the contending classes in given historical epochs!

What we have is a perspective based upon some very observable historical, economic, material and political processes. Hardly irrational!
Economics is a "soft" science. Ask 23 people, get 24 answers.
I'm not enough of a student of history to know whether his premises are flawed.

The future though, to refer to my previous comments, is about the greater levels of democracy and the ability of the mass of people to influence the way we live. This has been rolled back in recent decades and replaced by a dictatorship of media control within very limited democratic parameters. No real democracy infact! The old saying "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets elected!" is very true! It is controlled very conciously by those in positions of power.
As I said, I totally disagree. Here in the States, we are seeing that very cheap short videos online are having a dramatic impact. It's changing how campaigns are run. Big, monied campaigns have tried releasing indie-style videos, and then that gets found out, scorn is heaped upon them for trying to pretend they are grass-roots.

Real democracy will be the control of our rescources and production methods by those who do the work. Real democracy will control the planets recources and plan and organise human needs. The real market regulator will be human need not human wants. Real wealth will be in the work that we do not the money we can make.
People work better when working better means personal gain, though. I know I operate that way. After I have what I need for my family, then I have room for altruism.

That new rising system, socialism, will unleash human potential. What capitalism has shown us is the posibilities, it's just that capitalism can no longer deliver to meet those aspirations!

Capitalism is destroying iself, it's up to working people to see it off once and for all!
Socialism is rising where, then? Nepal?

Meanwhile, Chinese people in some areas are being allowed to own their own homes, which has sparked a furious business in home-improvement products. There is simple joy in having your very own things and tending them.

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ysabella


Member

Posted Thu Apr 5th, 2007 8:19am Post subject: Room 101
Just on the subject of scepticism; I find myself as something of a retrospective sceptic. I can't help but find myself duped into believing something only to become a militant sceptic minutes, hours, days, years later. More importantly I hate myself for it, that moment when you realise that someone has gone out of their way to feed you a false truth and more importantly that I fell for it. Damn them all.

Interesting, Gravesy. Would you be willing to share an example, maybe?

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Flossy


Member

Posted Thu Apr 5th, 2007 10:31am Post subject: Room 101

Surely there are voluntary simplicity movements in the UK? Here where I live, there are loads of efforts to give to the needy, to reduce consumption, and to live with a smaller 'footprint.' There are experimental shared housing systems, farming systems, manufacturing systems I live in a capitalist society, but there is plenty of room for collective efforts.
As I say, consumerism is just seductive. It's like the worst of American culture - it's really contagious.

I will have to tackle each issues one at a time as I am compiling my portfolio for universtiy today! Please be patient! I may just go with things as I hit them though!

For the vast majority of people Consumerism is the only way of living! Generaly speaking, and because of the media and tradition and work/life balance and lack of education (on these issues) people simply default to consumerism because it's easy. We are all victims to one extent or another! Certainly I have heard of and know people who indulge in alternative life styles, but isn't it strange how they get branded in the popular media with names such as "Tree Huging Liberals" "Or lentil eating commies"? They are all of them, to a commune, treat with scathing hatred by a media fueled by an agenda to paint them as being mad, thus rendering their efforts ineffectual in the eyes of the masses. Well that's what happens here!

The industrial aspect of communal production is nothing new! It does reflect peoples desire to move away from capitalist production methods because of the very same reasons I have been trying to point out in my previous contributions. The people who propound these working methods, morally and ethically are sick of capitalism. They see that it is driven by self interest and the very fact that products are of poor quality and want to produce things that last and employ people on decent living wages and protect their conditions and underneath that just feel in better contol of their lives, living a life which is free of the knowledge that they are exploiting people for personal gain!

In Britain these movements existed in Victorian times with the Owenites and the Bournville's. These factories were established on co-operaive grounds doing what I have just outlined. Bournville still exists today but had to adapt to capitalist production methods, in effect abandoning it's original principles but the Owenites refused to adapt and went to the wall. What I am saying here is that you cannot build a collective, socialist style enterprise or an island of socialism in a sea of capitalism, Eventualy you will have to adopt capitalist economic paradigms in order to survive or go to the wall! The same will happen to these progressive movements in the US!

But rest assured, if ever these methods of organisation became popular then two things would happen!

1. They would become seriously demonised in the popular media and.....

2. Capitalist companies would spot an opportunity to make a buck out of them and in so doing destroy them!

The point I make is that it has to be a movement of the mass of people. Comsumerism, or capitalism, can only be roled back when the majority of people act as a group to eradicate the system.

On the question of car production, (which you can apply to almost all areas of production) it doesn't take a genius to see that waste, as a result of capitalist paradigms, is a major problem and one which is becoming increasingly dangerous because of global warming and developing scarcities in resources. Each company makes it's own brand of car which only works when you use it's spares in it's garages. This illusion of choice creates a market which is flooded with unecessary products, unecessary industrial capacity, soaking up energy and materials (which could be recyled more efficiently) which we can hardly afford as a race, as a planet.

Another example is the poverty question!

Walking around my local "cheap" market the other I day a thought dawns on me. These cheap "consumer goods" produced primarily for the poor, are rubbish. They do not last very long as they are made with inferior materials by cheap labour in China, Africa or the far east. Apart from the fact poor people pay more for their goods than the rich (because they have to replace them more often) the waste in materials and energy and labour time is uterly stagering.

In the last five years we have seen our local garment industry stripped away as these "employers" have up-rooted and moved to China or north Africa. You dont mean to tell me that they have gone for philanthropic reasons, to help out the poor Chinese or Africans do you? They are capitalist scum whose only thought is for profit, whether it be personal or to satisfy the share holders.

What was once a thriving good quality garment industry providing thousands of jobs with reasonable rates of pay has now been reduced to a series of sweat shops producing cheap shoddy goods for the very people who used to work for them, who can now onlty afford cheap shoody clothes because they no longer have decent jobs to earn the money because there are no factories to work in!

And it goes on!

We had a big coal mining industry here! Where has it gone?

We now import coal from eastern Europe because it's cheaper and now many of the miners work for Asda (WalMart).

It's a global division of labour. Services and high tech in the west and intensive production in the East.

Where is socialism happening?

Venezuela!

Without getting into to much detail because of time restraints check this issue out. Go to the Hands off Venezuela web site and read what is happening.

You will read about the US backed coup against another democratically elected government. The attempt on behalf of the CIA to arm insergents in Columbia against a democratic country. The economic interference in the affairs of Venezuela by the USA and the Bush administration, and the calls for the assasination of a president of a democratically elected government by right wing evengalists in the US.

And the list goes on and do you know why?

Because, up till now Chaves (Venezuelan Pres) and the govt of Ven have taken the oil wealth of the country and used it to finance health and housing schemes for the poor. Illiteracy has been irradicated. More companies are being taken into public ownership and are being planned. This list goes on!

Not socialism yet but Ven is moving in that direction and is a beacon for the poor and oppressed people of Latin America and the world!

Chaves is extremely popular in the Mid East for instance, appealing because he is secular and has demonstrated that he is for the poor and the workers.

Check it out!

Need to pop off for now and will address some of your other points later! TTFN.

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Gravesy


Member

Posted Thu Apr 5th, 2007 5:31pm Post subject: Room 101
Interesting, Gravesy. Would you be willing to share an example, maybe?

I can't think of an specific examples recently (maybe I'm getting naturaly cynical at the dizzying age of 27). But they're all along the following lines:

Otherperson: So [interesting fact]
Me: Really?!
[Ten minutes later, long after the other person has left earshot or the conversation has long since moved on]
Me: Bugger.

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MinervaMoon


Member

Posted Fri Apr 6th, 2007 7:15am Post subject: Room 101
Phew, those arguments are long! I haven't posted here in a while, and certainly haven't read all that has been discussed in this thread, but what got me to sign in again was the note on the first page that "skeptic" is the "American spelling". That may be true, but even so, I hope that your ardent clarification is not an insinuation that the British spelling is more "correct", since of course, the original Greek as "skeptomai" features the letter kappa - k.

Similar things happen with the difference between the American and British -ize/-ise debate (e.g., realize/realise). It was a zeta - z in Ancient Greece, and I'm simply staggered at the number of people who think that it's the Americans who corrupted the word.

Not a rant, since no one really made such claims in this particular thread, but now I've shared a little knowledge and can possibly get back into the groove of posting . . .

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Flossy


Member

Posted Fri Apr 6th, 2007 9:28am Post subject: Room 101
I hope that your ardent clarification is not an insinuation that the British spelling is more "correct", since of course, the original Greek as "skeptomai" features the letter kappa - k.

I dont think anyone truely gives a monkey's about the spellings of words as long as we know what is being said etc! I found the American/English difference when chasing the meaning and origins of the word Sckeptic and just flagged it up for devilment.

Hey-ho!

Please do take time to read the thread through as me and ysabella are having a polemic re all things political, philisophical, idealogical and sckeptical! Join in! It isn't cuddly fun stuff but by golly my typing has never had so much practice.

Seriously though there are some real issues being discussed. Get stuck in!

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