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Inducible


Member

Posted Tue Jul 10th, 2007 9:58pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Tue Jul 10th, 2007 9:59pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
That was the feeling I got. That she was trying to make it sound like he was just saying he was.

Assuming direct control...

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Inducible


Member

Posted Wed Jul 11th, 2007 3:13pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
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thesecretlifeofamanicdepressive


Member

Posted Wed Jul 11th, 2007 4:18pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
I watched the repeat when it was on last night (or the night before...) was it me or did she try to make out Stephen didn't suffer with bipolar?

Cyclothymia, which is bipolar "lite"- although I really don't think this is true. Someone who tries to kill themselves isn't cyclothymic. He's bipolar II if anything. It doesn't particularly matter, though, since he won't take medications. It's just the things he was talking about at the start of the discussion- his thoughts, speech going too fast, insomnia- are "racing thoughts"- symptoms of bipolar disorder.

I just want to hug him. He is such a lovely man.

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Inducible


Member

Posted Wed Jul 11th, 2007 5:12pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
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Shyamz


Member

Posted Wed Jul 11th, 2007 11:53pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
I missed her interview with Stephen first time round, but at last got the chance to see it the other night, and the Sharon Osbourne one before that...and had been dubious about the idea from the start.

Having any sort of therapy is a decision not to be taken lightly, as my mum who was an experienced and respected psychiatric nurse will tell you...and that's if you are planning on seeing a seasoned proffesional, never mind a late-starter like Pamela.

Mrs Connolly (because let's face it, that's how she got this gig in the first place), is an ex-comedian, who took up psychiatric study late in life.
Most therapists will have been studying such things since their college days, and then gone on to university. In other words, they would have been involved in this area of medicine all their lives, having never spent any time doing anything else.

Frankly, she seemed to me to be almost leading her interveiwees towards certian answers, or even helping them towards an answer, rather than giving them time to think for themselves.
Many jokes are made about therapists and what they do, "you pay them a fortune to just sit and do nothing while you talk!" and in some ways that's true.

The art of therapy is to know when to talk and when to listen.
We have the answers to these questions allready in us (look to Stephen's bipolar documentary and you'll see what I mean), and the job of the doctor is to help the patient find those answers for themselves, and not rush or bully them.

Using the two interviews above as examples, she would often be heard asking things like, "and that made you feel ashamed" or "and you were hurt by that", rather than simply asking "how did that make you feel?", "and were you ashamed about that?"
You can tell she has been working in the States for so long, by her insistance that Stephen was hurt and abused, on occasions that he says he was not.
Now denial is one thing, but you have to be able to tell the difference between denial and repression, and thoughtfull, reasoned hindsight, and she clearly cannot. She is obviously used to dealing with fairly rich clients with few real problems, who are allways looking for a point in their lives that they can use as an excuse for any perceived failings on their part, and will happily beleive anything if it's what they want to hear, and she will happily lead them to it.

I was appaled by her responce to the story of the sexual encounter with an older boy at school, when he lost his virginity. "I'm sorry, but I just cannot find that funny Stephen, it's a horrible experience" and words to that effect.
A person in a positon of authority and power, like she is in her position as a therapist, should never attach their own feelings and moral attitudes to the experiences and actions of the person they are counseling, it's close to been judgemental, which they are not meant to be.

Television is probably not the best platform for this type of thing, as you also get the feeling that she had several specific things she wanted to get to, and would try to hurry her interviewees along, and even interupt them mid-flow, to get as much in in the limited timeframe as possible. But therapy cannot be rushed.

It's hard no to feel dreadfull and sad when he talks about himself in the negative way he does, but I suppose we will never see ouselves the way others do, no matter how lovely we are. I hope he does find a way to be happy with himself. :'(

Phew, sorry for the rant, but I do get so annoyed about all the damaging fake and inexperienced "proffesionals" out there and the damage they can do, that it's quite a bugbear with me...that's enough for now!

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AxmxZ


Moderator

Posted Thu Jul 12th, 2007 4:11am Post subject: Shrink Rap
IAWTC. She really screwed the pooch, I think.

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Trouble


Member

Posted Thu Jul 12th, 2007 10:27pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
I'm not sure how I felt about this. Firstly I was overwhelmed by the candid "I wasn't abused" reaction of Stephen. I had several sexual encounters (never intercourse though) with a 13 year old boy, when I was 7 and I've always felt torn over whether I considered it to be abuse. I feel like I should, because society says it is, but then I remember reading an interview with Sean Connery, where he claimed to have lost his virginity at 8 years old. Also, I hear about teenage girls, in certain countries, who are married off to men in their 20's. How do you define abuse if you consent, accept, or enjoy what's happening? Like Stephen, I too wrote a poem about the experience, so I guess it did affect me in some way, and then I also went on to suffer from depression, though I never considered abuse, or anything in my childhood, to be the cause (rather, it was unrequited love).

Also, I feel that Pamela did her best in her capacity as a therapist; it's still a tentative science despite the popularity of Freud, I mean, how can you prove with any certainty the workings of the human mind? Of course psychologists are going to seize on everything as evidence of why you're so messed up. However, if I'm allowed to quote my favourite pop star here (see avatar) "There is no such thing in life as normal". Some of us aren't sure if we want to be told what we ought to feel, or that we can find a way to be 'cured'. Like, Pamela said, I hope that Stephen can wake up every morning and want to be alive, but I also know exactly what he means by not minding if he ceases to exist; I must think about death (fleetingly) almost every day. Am I suffering from some sort of condition, or am I just being honest with regards to human nature? There must be times when people feel so strongly that they don't want to do something, or that they're so upset, or even that they're in a place of such peace, that they could die right there and then and it wouldn't matter. Furthermore, I don't want not to feel this way occasionally, because I think it would hamper my creativity and even my enjoyment of the times when I feel happy.

With regards to whether Stephen does suffer from Manic Depression, the condition is a bit like Autism in that there's a spectrum. I don't doubt that Stephen suffers from some form of it, probably triggered by stressful situations. But, my best friend's father is a serious sufferer: when he doesn't take his medication and becomes manic he talks incessantly, spends money like there's no tomorrow and spins stories so convincing you aren't sure of what's truth and what's fantasy. When he becomes depressed, a few days afterwards, he attempts suicide. Even his family have forgotten how many times he's tried to kill himself. Stephen definitely sounds like this type of person, but on a much lesser scale.

Overall, I enjoyed watching him open up and be his usual, beautiful self, but I felt so uncomfortable for him at times and I thought, like his biography, the whole thing was very brave. I would never dare to bare my soul in such a public fashion. However, though I empathised with much of what he was saying, I couldn't get my head around his aversion to dancing. On a dancefloor is when I feel truly alive, especially if it's an indie / rock club. I suppose it's all a matter of how you hide your self consciousness though, for instance, I could never get in front of a camera and yet Mr Fry has no qualms about that. If ever a psychological study needed to be done, the different ways in which we cope with shyness certainly should be addressed.

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Menecairiel


Member

Posted Sat Jul 14th, 2007 3:22pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
I watched this and was amazed on how Mr Fry acted...very gracefully. I wasn't too keen on the fact she returned to the abuse all the time, when clearly he in his mind had dealt with it and oddly enough dismissed it.

Still, a very enlightening program, and I did enjoy listening to Mr Fry's voice.

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melampus


Member

Posted Fri Jul 20th, 2007 8:22am Post subject: Shrink Rap
If ever a psychological study needed to be done, the different ways in which we cope with shyness certainly should be addressed.

You handsome devil! I have always secretly thought that Stephen Fry may actually, deep deep deep deep down inside, be a shy person. But of course I will never know for sure.

This is a bit off-topic, but the ABC here in Australia is currently screening another series of 'Brat Camp' and despite my mixed feelings about the 'brats' and the 'camps' and the whole politics/morality/etc etc of the entire undertaking, I couldn't help but watch it... like a train wreck I know...

Anyway, one of the boys really stuck me -- so much that I can't remember his name!! :-// -- he's the kid whose grandmother looked into his newborn eyes and declared that he was 'going to be either an archbishop or an arch criminal'. Listening to his litany of crimes and misdemeanours, I instantly thought of Mr Fry. This 'brat' was doing almost exactly the same things that Stephen did -- lying, stealing, cheating, deceiving, robbing his mum and his sister, etc etc. This 'brat' was an intelligent boy who knew exactly what he had done. He just didn't seem to know why he did it, or how to control himself. (Or maybe the interviewer didn't bother to ask him.) Which led me to think, Does this boy have a mental illness? Is he super-clever? Of course, it's easy to sit on my arse on a couch and wonder such things when his mother, who has had to throw him out of the house for the 'good of the family', is in abject despair.

But I couldn't help thinking about a certain very accomplished man who once fitted the 'brat' bill exactly. 'Is evil something you are, or something you do?'

Pardon my musings, it's Friday afternoon here in Oz.

xx Peace out

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Shyamz


Member

Posted Mon Feb 25th, 2008 1:22am Post subject: Shrink Rap
Sorry to drag up such an old thread for seemingly no reason, but a new post I spotted on Stephen's Facebook Proxy Group wall suddenly somehow makes me see the whole series in a new light (Post courtesy of Sarah Neumann Shoenbrun):


Apparently she has her psych doctorate from an *unaccredited* program in California. California is the only state that lets psychologists from unaccredited programs practice, I believe. Plus, apparently her specialty or concentration or whatever is in sex-related issues, so no wonder she wanted to concentrate on that particular experience.
However, apparently the "Shrink Rap" interview is introduced to the celebrities as just another form of interview, and not a real therapy experience, so I suppose we shouldn't expect her to act exactly as a therapist.




Facinating! Suddenly it all makes sense!

And if it was presented to the guests as more of an ordinary interview than a therapy session, why was she allowed to ask the kinds of questions she did?..and how come it WAS presented to the public as a genuine "therapist's couch" type of show?

Just as I thought, very dodgy all round...

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amyl_nitrate


Member

Posted Mon Feb 25th, 2008 4:51pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
Especially if she's not even accredited!

Assuming direct control...

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beckett23


Member

Posted Sun May 4th, 2008 8:56pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
Interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JXsyQWBbw4 watch at 4:30ff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv1faghnKsQ watch at 4:30ff

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nongenderous


Member

Posted Sun May 4th, 2008 9:28pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
I don't understand why he agreed to do the program. The questions were awful and she was just focusing on sex. Also, therapy isn't something you do as entertainment. Why, Stephen, why?
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fryfan20


Member

Posted Sun May 11th, 2008 11:45pm Post subject: Shrink Rap
I don't understand why he agreed to do the program. The questions were awful and she was just focusing on sex. Also, therapy isn't something you do as entertainment. Why, Stephen, why?

because he can't say no, that i understand verry well. i have the same problem.
and that women was awful to him, and he stayed so nice

I am what I am

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