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m.tomat


Member

Posted Fri Sep 11th, 2009 4:59pm Post subject: struggling in translation

words read and written imply all senses. they are connected with sound, taste, smell. bring back memories. they LOOK different.

does anybody think that a 'perfect translation' will ever be possible?

it really frustrates me... it takes me ages to find the 'perfect' word, which would look and sound good.

it seems easy when you change a 'rose' for a 'rosa', but 'mazzo rose cinque' (which has its own rhythm, sound and appearance) doesn't look and sound as good when becomes 'bunch roses five'

Mr. Fry, pls... besides keeping on reading, and writing, and trying, and gathering all the reference books I could get hold of... do you have any other suggestion?

regards,
a frustrated italian in preston...

you shall take pictures and make love only while you dare

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Sat Sep 12th, 2009 3:58am Post subject: struggling in translation

It's always difficult when you go for a literal translation. Sometimes you have to reorganise the words to get the correct meaning over. It also depends on what the 'mazzo rose cinque' represent - their symbolism. Five as in a fist, or five as in a quintet.

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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m.tomat


Member

Posted Sat Sep 12th, 2009 10:06am Post subject: struggling in translation

I have never thought about the 'five' as in a fist, actually.
It was more of a telegraphic way of saying instead of 'five roses in a bunch', more of a list.

still struggling. but I'll get there! thanks for any help, anyway...

the other one that I've posted is more complicated (find/ness me), since the words are also coloured differently, and the sentence/verse can be read in two/three different ways depending of what you read. here it doesn't sound as it should. but, how could it?!?

you shall take pictures and make love only while you dare

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quantumofire


Member

Posted Sat Sep 12th, 2009 11:14am Post subject: struggling in translation

A little quote from Auden might help -

How can I know what I think till I see what I say? A poet writes "The chestnut's comfortable root" and then changes this to "The chestnut's customary root." In this alteration there is no question of replacing one emotion with another, or strengthening an emotion, but of discovering what the emotion is. The emotion is unchanged, but waiting to be identified like a telephone number one cannot remember...

http://quantumofire.blogspot.com/

Breaking contradictions in his mind was, to him, like walking through a winter forest snapping twigs underfoot.

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larajuly


Member

Posted Sun Sep 13th, 2009 3:18am Post subject: struggling in translation

In 1955, Nabokov said:

“What is translation? On a platter
A poet’s pale and glaring head,
A parrot’s screech, a monkey’s chatter,
And profanation of the dead.”

He believed that a book should be read in a language of an original.
Just some thoughts.

Live&Learn

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Nitro


Member

Posted Sun Sep 13th, 2009 4:13am Post subject: struggling in translation

Paralysis by analysis.

How do you avoid it if you indulge in it?

Really? Wow.

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m.tomat


Member

Posted Tue Sep 15th, 2009 4:34pm Post subject: struggling in translation

very difficult not to 'indulge' in it, since not many English do speak nor/and read Italian!

I just wish my English wasn't so poor...

m.

you shall take pictures and make love only while you dare

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Nitro


Member

Posted Tue Sep 15th, 2009 9:57pm Post subject: struggling in translation

My apologies. I hadn't realized your native tongue is Italian.

I only meant that, and it's hard to explain even in my own language, if you over-edit yourself you can wind up censoring your natural flow. There's a tendency in every writer, at least good ones, to sometimes become so caught up in finding the perfect word they might lose sight of the overall mood/point(s)/rythm of the poem. I guess you know where you're caught up in that because it might result in a stalemate between you and what you're attempting to write.

Anyway, carry on and, of course, please feel free to ignore anything I might attempt to make a point of. Which I did so fairly poorly in this case lol

Really? Wow.

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