Topic RSS | Reply to topic
Author Post

Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 6th, 2007 12:03pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Hi thanks, Crazy in a box and Nadia

Its really helpful to hear people’s understanding of their experiences. I’m grateful they are prepared to be so open. I do understand how you’ve put this C.in.a.box and you’ve answered exactly the question I asked.

Your line –

“…so when I get a not so bad one, I can see its not how I felt before therefore I'll be ok.....”

is really interesting, cos it seems the person thinking ‘This isn’t such a bad bout of depression coming up’ is predicting the intensity of the cause of her anxiety ahead by referring back to previous experience, seeing the evidence of fact (because it happened before) was that she would be ‘okay’ i.e. survive intact, and this reduced her level of anxiety about the looming depression, and probably dealt with it, when it came, better (she doesn’t say).

The same is in this description of what someone felt:

"The one thing that got me through those hell-pit episodes was knowing it would pass, I knew I had something like a pendulum swinging both ways but didn't know exactly what it was. "

Can you say, then, that your experience of the mood was changed by what your thoughts about it were?


So what I get from this is that with Bipolar disorder sometimes it can be that how a person regards what’s happening can alter the emotion in the moment, and so how they act in the situation.

This would be about having Bipolar but trying to reduce its impact on people’s wider lives like work, not-work, the stuff that people describe in the forum.

It would be nice to hear what any body else makes of this, but the last week of this thread has given me plenty to think about, will try to integrate this into the wider health model that I’m training in.

Anyway blah blah , you know what I mean, need coffee and a week asleep. Thanks спасибо

Back to top

Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 6th, 2007 12:09pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Thanks shatzi thats a great sentence when you read it back.

Actually that is completely on the mark. The downs are as bad, but my ability to tolerate them is better. Perfect!

Chris

Back to top

Fourth Feline


Member

Posted Fri Apr 6th, 2007 12:54pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
My own experience of where Cognitive Behavioural methods, ( or at least one's perception of the depression's direction ) affects full blown BP II is as follows:

Back when I was 'just' being treated for anxiety states ( 1975 ) without noticable unipolar depression, CBT worked well.

When I started to develop severe Uni-Polar episodes, ( 1983 ) I could not stop the decent - but reassurances from authority or pseudo parent figures ( such as my G.P ) would help me endure it better if constantly re-assured that it was temporary and transient, albeit very painful.

It could not however alter the choice of whether I became depressed or not, as it's basis was by then proven to be caused by brain chemistry and not Cognitive perceptual distortions.

When finally, I blossomed into being BP II with anxiety states and mixed episodes, ( 2003 ) my Consultant, G.P. and hospital care team agreed that it had gone far beyond me being able to "choose" which direction my mood took - as it was now operating at the level of a psychosis and not a neurosis.

All that being said, I agree with that while the right kind of re-assurances can not dissipate the mood swing, it can ( to a degree ) help me be more stoic about what has now become the unavoidable.

We now seek an eventual management using multiple drugs and occasional face to face 'pep' talks.

Hope some of that made sense. Very hard to describe objectively from the 'inside'

My triggers are usually stress, and even 'positive' excitement - with an underlying cycling pattern whose length is not yet established due to ongoing chemical modification.

Regards,

Derek.

Back to top

Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Fri Apr 6th, 2007 7:21pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
I feel quite priveleged that people will share their personal experience very publically with me.

by 'taking into my training' i mean understanding how this diagnosis/disorder how you will, fits into the approach to working with mental health problems we are learning - cognitive-behavioural.

There's a long way to go but ithink our collected words show something about possibilities within the disorder.

for the record...

I think the NHS women's words about treatments might apply in some situations

Psychosis is not acessible to psychotherapy in the moment, at least i can't imagine it normally would change things. Thats a different response.

also

its not for me to say what is helpful for someone else. so its helped me understand better. Thanks. Chris

Back to top

Fourth Feline


Member

Posted Sat Apr 7th, 2007 2:28pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
An update really, having reflected on my triggers etc.

I had already cited stress - and even excitement/positive stress such as hectic socialising ( or when I used to perform on stage ) can trigger a hell of a low the day after and start the pendulum swinging etc.

Work stress or aggression used to trigger an uncontrollable 'high' as an involuntary self defence mechanism.

Alcohol ( even in modest amounts ) triggers a low - as does uneven sleep patterns or habits.

I would add a note for Chris B too; - with reference of how/where psychoanalysis helps/does not help/ fits into BP II.

I was given a course of psychoanalysis, but if it is built on ( what I am given to understand is ) the Freudian model, where the analyst remains passive and only listens, it is like trying to make and then pull a continuous thread out of a box that contains only sections.

I felt I could have talked for yet another 48 years, exploring the often tangental 'issues' and still had loose ends left.

My hypothesis ( as a recipient ) - is therefore that psychosis and Bi-Polar illness requires a more pragmatic, goal orientated and forward looking 'talk' therapy, if at all. I find that as medication works a little better each time, the individual can intuitively gather the clues and relevant links (if any ) to the past themselves.

I do however benefit from the informal but very interactive counceling of family and friends.

I believe Psycho-analysis to be backward looking in an unhelpful and protracted way, but CBT and/or good counceling to be forward looking and pragmatic.

We cannot change the past, but can ( with help ) challenge ( and hopefully change) what the past has made us today - without having to fully understand what that 'past' was.

Just my feelings on the subject based on the last 32 or so years of having tried all options I am aware of.

I do however believe medication to be a vital part of the treatment: - at least in my case - and those I know.

Regards to all,

Derek.

Back to top

Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Sat Apr 7th, 2007 10:50pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Quickly to confirmthat my own views do not encompass Pychoanalytical or psychodynamic therapy, which has its place i'm sure, maam.

Freuds good but there is always a horse somewhere in it, at the bottom of it all + works better on Middle-class Viennese Women with time on their hands. But our dreams are the golden gateway to our unconscious, bearing iin mind the brilliant Professor Susan Blackmore would consider just that in the moment as any part of our conscious 'mind'. Uhmmm...

The main point about history in Cognitive-behavioural therapy is that it is believed to inform the beliefs we form, which themselves become very strong though not necessarily accurate attitude formers, the pre-formed thoughts we have. If these attitudinal thoughts, automatic thoughts, are not accurate, based on mislearnt interpretations of others beliefs and motivations, like parents, siblings.... then, i gues, it follows that the feelings we have depending on what we're thinking at that time based on automatc responses to long-term corebeliefs based on earlier learning experiences.... well its bound to affect how you feel, and therefore what you do which leads to more confirmation of the original thought and hey presto a set of maintaining factors and it's... just like it was before.

The whole principle of CBT (I'm learning at a 1/3 through) is
act to relieve symptoms
act minimally
act on user's agenda
do no harm

Sitting on a chaise long for 90 minutes with a bloke with a grey beard smoking a pipe an asking meabout horses is in a different league from me.


The trust psychologist/ behavioural therapist and the trust CPN/ com mh clinical manager both said to me that the way to work with strong emotions is to work behaviourally in terms of how one reacts to one's emotions. Louise the second trust-worker said there was a period when often in people they were able topick up mood shifting, and behaviourally alter the consequent behaviour, if they chose to, which was the cognitive aspect of mood control, plus a good idea of which emotions are which. Both women have treated or ben running careplans etc for Bipolar patients, which is to remember that often people are being co-treated for a number of conditions/disorders what you will, and there is much overlap.

And for sure everything is on a scale from possible to impossible and other scales like most/any and ... and black an white anyway with all colours between.

I guess the bottom line is i don't want to be a fatalist.

Something like that anyway

c

Back to top

Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Sun Apr 8th, 2007 3:28am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
I was just thinking about it some more...
In relation to my triggers - I actually have certain ones that can anger me or send me into such an emotion that they trigger my depression (If that makes sense)

The best example of this would be; on my really bad days when I dont feel like doing anything, I barely get dressed and eat, I obviously dont have it in me to do certain things in the house such as cleaning or turning on lights or turning on the heating. Its just Im not aware of things around me. Then when my mam and dad gets home, my dad uses the sentence "You've done nothing, you've sat on your arse all day". I flip, I literally have no control of my emoitions. This is because I feel an injustice at the fact that I COULDNT do anything as opposed to WOULDNT do anything. In my mind there is a big difference. When Im not in the shit of my mind, I am so organised and have everything perfect.
What happens is, I get so angry/emotional I then burst into tears and then end up in a zombie/depressed state for up to 24 hours were I literally cant be consoled. I just hate everything, the world, myself.... it just consumes me.

Back to top

Aoibheann


Member

Posted Sun Apr 8th, 2007 4:26am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
I was just thinking about it some more...
In relation to my triggers - I actually have certain ones that can anger me or send me into such an emotion that they trigger my depression (If that makes sense)

The best example of this would be; on my really bad days when I dont feel like doing anything, I barely get dressed and eat, I obviously dont have it in me to do certain things in the house such as cleaning or turning on lights or turning on the heating. Its just Im not aware of things around me. Then when my mam and dad gets home, my dad uses the sentence "You've done nothing, you've sat on your arse all day". I flip, I literally have no control of my emoitions. This is because I feel an injustice at the fact that I COULDNT do anything as opposed to WOULDNT do anything. In my mind there is a big difference. When Im not in the shit of my mind, I am so organised and have everything perfect.
What happens is, I get so angry/emotional I then burst into tears and then end up in a zombie/depressed state for up to 24 hours were I literally cant be consoled. I just hate everything, the world, myself.... it just consumes me.

Im the exact same! But, i find it has to pass, you know? you cant go on feeling like that for the rest of your life...... things change, they always do. plus i think your cool...

Back to top

trouser material


Member

Posted Sun Apr 8th, 2007 6:04pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Then when my mam and dad gets home, my dad uses the sentence "You've done nothing, you've sat on your arse all day". I flip, I literally have no control of my emoitions. This is because I feel an injustice at the fact that I COULDNT do anything as opposed to WOULDNT do anything.

I know what you mean. After 12 pints up the pub friday night i really COULD not re-decorate the kitchen saturday morning, rather than would not. You know? X-D

Back to top

Aoibheann


Member

Posted Sun Apr 8th, 2007 6:15pm Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Then when my mam and dad gets home, my dad uses the sentence "You've done nothing, you've sat on your arse all day". I flip, I literally have no control of my emoitions. This is because I feel an injustice at the fact that I COULDNT do anything as opposed to WOULDNT do anything.

I know what you mean. After 12 pints up the pub friday night i really COULD not re-decorate the kitchen saturday morning, rather than would not. You know? X-D

funny fella X-D

Back to top

trouser material


Member

Posted Tue Apr 10th, 2007 7:46am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Not really, i did end up re-decorating it.

Back to top

meekychuppet


Member

Posted Tue Apr 10th, 2007 9:58am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
I am aware of trigger but I don't remember anyone called Stability in Only Fools & Horses.

Back to top

Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Tue Apr 10th, 2007 11:13am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
If you were to undergo psychoanalytical psychotherapy you would remember all the things to do with Horses but the fools part you might have to negotiate with the therapist. .... off to Coulsdon for a piece of cherry pie before more serious sleuthing.... Watson! Come on we haven't got all day. the train leaves Victoria in twenty.... Now where's that Hansome???

Back to top

shatzi


Member

Posted Wed Apr 11th, 2007 3:12am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Nothing really triggers me, as I've said, I do know extreme stress gives me sleep paralysis.
Here's a f'rinstance:
I leave on Saturday for two weeks holiday in Hawaii. Meanwhile I have been having a ball fixing up my new house. Sounds divine huh?
This week I have felt myself slipping down, or rather being pulled down. I am feeling too down to do my last minute things. I'm fighting it, but have the urge to stare out the window and get all teary eyed. Why? I have no clue.
You all know how frustrating it is to have this hit out of the blue. I'm not suicidal, never was, but you'd think a normal person would be happy, packing for a trip to a beautiful place. but noooo, not me, I have to get pulled down again. I wish that Devil on my shoulder would leave me alone.

Back to top

Aoibheann


Member

Posted Wed Apr 11th, 2007 5:13am Post subject: Triggers and stability?
Ohh, heres a virtual hug for ou Shatzi *hug*
Your trip sounds amazing. im sure once you are there you will feel better, sitting on the beach with a drink in your hand... one with a little umbrella in it....!


I strongly agree with your statement at the bottom... hair is best left alone after any amount of alcohol.... and from my experience so is make-up....

Back to top