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The Minister of Chance


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 5:42am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
Yes, they did.

Well, history is made, so what else can you say. Lets embrace this hope, I hope he does a good job, I hope I can help change this world a little bit too, I hope we all can.

Now to hear him speak.

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IdeaCollector


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 5:53am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
McCain conceded which was nice b/c finally we have an election where people aren't fighting over the results.

To say I am blissfully happy would be the understatement of the century.

Onwards to tomorrow

I used to be EternalStudent on these forums until the switch over. So don't get excited..I'm not someone new and exciting. I'm just me :P

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TobiasMonk


Moderator

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 5:55am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election

Texas is likely to give McCain an electoral bump, despite Tobias Monk skipping his write-in to ride the wave, but I don't think it could possibly be enough. Tobias, I will seriously toast you and Hillary tonight, probably with red wine. Although I may actually have the stuff on hand to make a caipirinha! I may only have lemons, though, and not limes. But close enough!

Incidentally, regarding the free giveaways, like the donuts and coffee, and incidentally free sex toys at Toys in Babeland: that is considered unlawful, so they have to give them to you even if you didn't vote. The reason probably is as I said above - if you get more people to vote, it automatically favors the Democrats, so it's considered partisan.

I did ride the wave, and I'm so glad it's finally over because like many I'm sure, I was genuinely stressed about this. I knew my state would go red and that's part of the frustration, the knowledge that my vote didn't really count. I'm wondering how the popular votes did. I'll have that drink now.

I cannot be awake for nothing looks to me as it did before, Or else I am awake for the first time, and all before has been a mean sleep.
Walt Whitman

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ysabella


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 6:16am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
*holds up glass of Dancing Bull Zinfandel*

To you and to Hillary, Tobias.

The Economist's take on Obama's win is a good read.

We're still watching results roll in.

The good news: a "death with dignity" initiative here in WA state looks to be passing.

The very very bad news: it looks like Prop 8 in California is going to pass. Fuckheads.

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j9r


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 6:26am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election


The very very bad news: it looks like Prop 8 in California is going to pass. Fuckheads.

My only hope is that the numbers from San Francisco and LA aren't in yet. Would like to go those Yes on 8 people and smack them senseless.

---j

"I'm from New Jersey, if the world ended today, I'd adjust" - John Gorka

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ysabella


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 6:33am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
That's true - the page I'm looking at only has 15% of precincts. We need the big city votes on that one. So still hoping!

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gjhsu


Moderator

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 6:49am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election

The very very bad news: it looks like Prop 8 in California is going to pass. Fuckheads.

Wow. Seriously?!

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Shader


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 7:03am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
It's a bit early to call that, I'd wait until more of the votes have come in. Hopefully it'll get struck down.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/ballot.measures/

That being said, a ban on gay marriage was passed in Arizona and Florida as well as a ban on gay couples adopting children in Arkansas.

=/

The ban on adoption bothers me the most.

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ysabella


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 7:03am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
At the moment, Prop 8's lead is less strong, but it's still in the lead.

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dulieGirl


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 7:12am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
Well, there was crying, and cheering, and dropping of ballons, and shooting of fireworks, and this was just out of a friend's house. What a night. I posted a video up on YouTube about it once I got home. It's now 12:15 am and I need to get to bed. Too excited to sleep though.

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Mares


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 7:24am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election


The very very bad news: it looks like Prop 8 in California is going to pass. Fuckheads.

My only hope is that the numbers from San Francisco and LA aren't in yet. Would like to go those Yes on 8 people and smack them senseless.

Y'know I think the violent attacks against people who happened to support prop 8, the man, Jose Nunez, who had his eye slashed open while handing out signs outside his church, by a no on prop 8 person, and then the elderly couple (ages 76 & 77) who were beaten up by a no on prop 8 person, because he objected to their having a sign in their own yard probably increased support for prop 8. That appalled me, it must have felt like a slap in the face to those who truly believe in tolerance.

I've spent almost four decades fighting for civil rights and social justice, and it angers me to see them trampled by those who should know better.. it only serves to discredit any legitimacy on all the issues across the board. I think the time has come for all those who like to talk about civil rights, to learn that they aren't a one way street, and are contingent upon respecting the rights of others, even those you might not agree with.

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Mares


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 7:37am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
*holds up glass of Dancing Bull Zinfandel*


The good news: a "death with dignity" initiative here in WA state looks to be passing.



What troubles me about that is "dignity" is open to speculation. In Oregon, the state health plan can deny someone treatment, if they don't think the odds are good enough. A 53 year old woman was denied a cancer treatment, and was told her only choice was to accept meds that will kill her. She wasn't lying on her death bed, and was horrified and heart broken.. doesn't sound much like "dignity" to me, more like inhumane and monstrous treatment.

There shouldn't be initiatives like that, if they are allowed to be so vague, and calculatedly cold hearted that abuses by those in authority are allowed. I was also incensed that books that treat suicide in a very cavalier fashion are being handed out in schools.. I read about one such book about a bunny committing suicide for elementary school students. I can't blame people for being concerned about the motives that rationalize such things.

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ysabella


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 8:18am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
[What troubles me about that is "dignity" is open to speculation. In Oregon, the state health plan can deny someone treatment, if they don't think the odds are good enough. A 53 year old woman was denied a cancer treatment, and was told her only choice was to accept meds that will kill her. She wasn't lying on her death bed, and was horrified and heart broken.. doesn't sound much like "dignity" to me, more like inhumane and monstrous treatment.
Well, that one was a little more complicated than that, but yeah, cost-benefit analysis doesn't always seem fair, does it?

There shouldn't be initiatives like that, if they are allowed to be so vague, and calculatedly cold hearted that abuses by those in authority are allowed. I was also incensed that books that treat suicide in a very cavalier fashion are being handed out in schools.. I read about one such book about a bunny committing suicide for elementary school students. I can't blame people for being concerned about the motives that rationalize such things.
I read about that book! I saw a few of the cartoons. What elementary school had that?!

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ClareBear


Moderator

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 10:20am Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
The world is watching.

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Mares


Member

Posted Wed Nov 5th, 2008 4:26pm Post subject: U.S. Presidential Election
[What troubles me about that is "dignity" is open to speculation. In Oregon, the state health plan can deny someone treatment, if they don't think the odds are good enough. A 53 year old woman was denied a cancer treatment, and was told her only choice was to accept meds that will kill her. She wasn't lying on her death bed, and was horrified and heart broken.. doesn't sound much like "dignity" to me, more like inhumane and monstrous treatment.
Well, that one was a little more complicated than that, but yeah, cost-benefit analysis doesn't always seem fair, does it?

There shouldn't be initiatives like that, if they are allowed to be so vague, and calculatedly cold hearted that abuses by those in authority are allowed. I was also incensed that books that treat suicide in a very cavalier fashion are being handed out in schools.. I read about one such book about a bunny committing suicide for elementary school students. I can't blame people for being concerned about the motives that rationalize such things.
I read about that book! I saw a few of the cartoons. What elementary school had that?!

Lovely how it can be so cut and dried.. cost/benefit analysis.. benefit for whom, exactly?

The premise the legislation was based on was to limit the suffering of those on their death beds, now it's ridiculous vague language rationalizes those in power to move the slide rule down to deny treatment that will prolong life, or alter the course of a cancer or other illnessness's.

Should those facing AIDS, under that kind of health plan be denied the meds that only offer a slight chance of prolonging their lives? Should a fireman, or police officer decide that placing their lives on the line, to save that of another, has no benefit to them, so they can impose a sliding scale to determine who and what would be worth it?

How about global warming, environmental issues? Some studies claim that the emphasis on carbon emissions provides a window of only six years.. perhaps we should judge the tremendous cost of that, with not really much benefit in the long run, wasteful?

I googled to examine exactly how much more complicated the case was. Barbara Wagner's oncologist recomended the treatment, he didn't say that it would be fruitless for her to take the med. Fortunately the pharmaceutical company decided to offer her the medication free of charge.

It was the Oregon Health Plan that refused the request, stating, "Treatment of advanced cancer that is meant to prolong life, or change the course of this disease, is not a covered benefit of the Oregon Health Plan,"

Changing the course, reducing the growth and spread of her cancer. The medication could prolong her life for several years, perhaps even longer. My late mother in law, a breast cancer survivor, who had a double mastectomy, outlived her doctor's predictions, for more than 20 years.

We do know that denying care or treatment means only death, my husband's lymphoma went undiagnosed, because he was denied access to the specialist he desperately needed as a person waiting for a transplant, who had been the healthiest person at his transplant clinic, and an ideal candidate.

What caused the imposed death sentence on him, and on people like Barbra Wagner was ability to pay. It's the devaluation of those not affluent enough to pay for what is truly is a class based system of health care. My husband had been approved for medicare, because he had proceeded into an advanced state of organ failure, but because of the government's ignoring the problem (and democrats are as responsible in that they've not only ignored the problem, but helped exacerbate it), most public hospitals (they receive most of their funding from the federal and state government) will deny medicare patients access unless they have a supplemental policy. What this means is that in the US, we have less access, and much less humane, lesser quality health care than we did in the 1970s.

Debbie Hirst from Cornwall in the UK was prescribed a med that wasn't approved by the NHS, so she attempted to purchase it on her own. The government told her that if she did, she'd have to pay for the rest of her cancer care. It was an attempt to punish this woman by depriving her of what was covered under her NHS coverage, something she supports through her tax dollars. The government knew she couldn't afford to pay for all that, so it sought to punish her, and intimidate others for daring to get the best coverage they could.

It's the same problem with the demand that taxpayers in Michigan fund stem cell research in the state, yet one knows that those of them too poor to pay for what will be extremely expensive treatments that result, will be denied the benefits.

Why is it that the powers that be in Oregon insist that their taxpayer provided health plan not be the one they impose on their constituency? But one that wouldn't subject them to the strictures they themselves rationalize imposing on the people of Oregon?

The articles I read about The Book of Bunny Suicides didn't mention the school or schools that are distributing the book.

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