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Britannicus


Member

Posted Thu Aug 27th, 2009 8:49pm Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=7700000

Our new governor Gary Herbert has declared that gay rights should not be protected as racial, gender, and religious rights are. Sadly enough, many Utahns probably agree with him.

"Your room...it's CLEAN!!!"
"I prayed to God...and...it happened...but...where's my million dollars and horse!? Damn it!"

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Maxx England


Member

Posted Thu Aug 27th, 2009 9:05pm Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

[quote] In Utah, it is legal to fire someone for being gay or transgender. The gay rights advocacy group Equality Utah has been trying to change state law for several years but has always been rebuffed by the Republican-controlled Legislature.

Last year, the group got Republican Gov. Jon Huntsman's support for extending some rights to gay people, although none of the bills it backed became law.

Huntsman resigned earlier this month to become U.S. ambassador to China. [quote]

I have the impression that China is oddly similar to Utah in some respects. Perhaps I've read it somewhere.

The only way is forward. Now where's the bar?

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Nitro


Member

Posted Thu Aug 27th, 2009 9:52pm Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

If you go to city-data.com and look under 'Utah', read some of the threads that new transplants from other states there have to say about it.

In general, those who are not Mormon are not feeling very 'welcomed'.

Some beautiful geography in that state though. I'd be less interested in the people and more in exploring the canyons and such. But I could see where, socially, it might be a problem living there in some cases.

Really? Wow.

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Britannicus


Member

Posted Thu Aug 27th, 2009 11:12pm Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

In general, those who are not Mormon are not feeling very 'welcomed'.

Depending on the city, this can be true or false. My experiences growing up would lead me to believe that this was fairly accurate for my hometown -- as a non-Mormon, I often encountered social barriers and biases, and the old cliche of Mormon families not allowing their children to play with the non-Mormon kids came true on more than one occasion. However, for my college town, which interestingly is a much smaller, more remote city out in the country, this was NOT true. It had the benefit of being the home to higher education, and historically, the city's population basis was from a far more diverse pool of immigrants. Not without its flaws, of course, but compared to where I grew up, it was a wonderful change. Much more welcoming of people from different cultures.

I do wish to clarify that I am not trying to be anti-Mormon or any such nonsense. Nor do I want to make this a "Mormon" issue. When it comes to the people themselves, I respect much of their culture and certainly the historical hardships they've been through. It is important to understand that there are different "flavors" of Mormons, and most are really not bad. I've known plenty that are completely accepting of other people's backgrounds, including sexual orientation. My problem lies with the fact that there is a man in office who has essentially declared that he cares little for the rights of a percentage of the people populating the state he’s serving, among other things. And unfortunately, many people here will back him -- but not ALL, and one can't just draw a line between Mormons and non-Mormons and claim one side as the supporters and the other as the dissenters. We can certainly argue that factors of the LDS religion have helped promote this kind of attitude; there is no denying of that. However, I do not wish for that to be the main issue, or turn this into a Mormon-bashing thread. There is more behind anti-gay attitudes than the Mormon religion.

And I couldn't agree more about the geography of Utah. That is the one thing rooting me to this place. Particularly the archaeological and paleontological sites that exist here -- they're mind-blowing. If you ever do come here, you should definitely devote some time to checking them out.

"Your room...it's CLEAN!!!"
"I prayed to God...and...it happened...but...where's my million dollars and horse!? Damn it!"

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joan


Member

Posted Fri Aug 28th, 2009 5:06am Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

Of course you shouldn't blame Mormonism for daft attitudes to gays and other people who don't conform - blame religion in general.

I've no time for silly beliefs, and even less time for people who use those beliefs to be unreasonable.


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Britannicus


Member

Posted Fri Aug 28th, 2009 6:43am Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

I've no time for silly beliefs, and even less time for people who use those beliefs to be unreasonable.

I’m with you there, at least when it comes to that bit about people using their beliefs to be unreasonable. In other words, they allow a belief system to replace their ability to think for themselves. But you don't need religion for that. Political ideology can have similar effects. And philosophy, too.

Gotta throw in my two cents about just basic spiritual beliefs in general though...tune me out if you want. Having ideas about a deity or the afterlife or Big Foot or about something science doesn’t explain or whatever – I say whoopee, big deal. As humans we all have an irrational side with the rational, and that needs sustenance too. I do feel that it contributes to an individual’s wellbeing to maintain some irrationality in their lives. Daring to consider the “impossible” -- based on current scientific understandings -- can often fuel the mind, or soothe the heart (consider After Death Communication).

But of course, irrationality shouldn’t OVERTAKE the rationality. And I guess that’s where the danger of some religions come in, in that they’ll often promote the replacement of rational thought with a belief system. THAT’S where things get sticky. …Especially when religion is combined with political power. Yikes.

"Your room...it's CLEAN!!!"
"I prayed to God...and...it happened...but...where's my million dollars and horse!? Damn it!"

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joan


Member

Posted Fri Aug 28th, 2009 7:40am Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

I used to be easy going about others' religious beliefs, but now I feel they can be harmful, especially to children who are easily influenced. But yes, I agree that a bit of harmless irrationality is OK.

I'd like to believe That Obama will succeed in getting a health care system for all Americans. I'd like to believe that the sociology of Star Trek will one day govern society. I'd like to believe that science will beat the ravages of old age.

But I know I'm being irrational. Hopeful - but irrational.


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Nitro


Member

Posted Mon Aug 31st, 2009 9:19pm Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

I'm not sure I saw even one post on this thread that indicated any desire to discuss Mormonism nor worded as anti-Mormon. I'm pretty sure pointing to the experiences of *others* and the chance to read their own words does not constitute bashing by any defintion. So, not sure where your anxiety about that is coming from Brit. I think it goes without saying, perhaps I'm wrong about this, that there are people in Utah who are quite happy there.

But since the initial post indicated frustration with the state of things in Utah, and since I do not live there, I thought it might be useful to point to a source where people could get a wide variety of opinions by actual transplants. Hence, the city-data site reference. And your childhood experience Brit, in terms of feeling socially seperated as Non-Mormons ( which is a kind of 'reverse discrimination' isn't it? ) is repeated there ( though by adults ). Any 'anti-gay' sentiment in Utah would not be surprising to me, wether that's a minority or majority perspective.

Like I said, I could care less about the residents social behaviors with each other as the geography, ( based only on pictures I've seen, of course ), is visually very captivating.

Really? Wow.

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IdeaCollector


Member

Posted Tue Sep 1st, 2009 2:48am Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

Sucks to hear that Utah is taking step back and it's never fun when you have to be associated with it b/c you are there.

My church just became the largest denomination in the United States to approve of gay clergy so it's not all sour news across the board on the gay rights front.

I used to be EternalStudent on these forums until the switch over. So don't get excited..I'm not someone new and exciting. I'm just me :P

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Britannicus


Member

Posted Tue Sep 1st, 2009 5:15am Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

Nitro --

I'm truly sorry if I came across as being a bit affronted, I honestly didn’t mean to be accusatory in any way whatsoever. I’ve just been to too many forum discussions, and too many personal chats that swerve all too readily into that “Oh, those Mormons” territory. Consider it an automatic defense, and stemming mostly from my own first post. I was concerned that my own wording might give way to such a discussion. So I felt the need to clarify my intention, for I am wary of those arguments, and it would be poorly fitting to complain about the mistreatment of one group only to descent into the badmouthing of another. So I apologize for any misunderstandings that may have occurred.

"Your room...it's CLEAN!!!"
"I prayed to God...and...it happened...but...where's my million dollars and horse!? Damn it!"

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Nitro


Member

Posted Tue Sep 1st, 2009 2:18pm Post subject: Utah - back to the dark ages

No worries Britannicus, and thank you for clarifying that, I appreciate it

Really? Wow.

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