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davidzzz


Member

Posted Wed May 9th, 2007 1:41am Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
I think NORMAL may have something to do with continuity of ACTION with the opposite ABNORMAL being the stuck-ness in a project , that moment when one can't go on anymore.
We don't feel "different" until we stop being engaged.
I think NORMAL has something to do to being involved, being part of the whole, being continuously needed for the whole to exist.
People who get a divorce, or loose a job, or retire, they all seem to have in common, not just the susceptibility to depression, but also the abandonment from partner, company of society.
Maybe abnormal may have something to do with the moment when nobody needs us more the we need ourselves.
And maybe this is one of the reason people who recover from "abnormality" are those who did find a reason beyond themselves to go on.
And the unfortunate ones are the ones that haven't had in a long time somebody to knock on their door for a cup of sugar,

D

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meekychuppet


Member

Posted Wed May 9th, 2007 4:27am Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
Dude, I don't wanna piss on your chips but there are some pretty big assumptions in your post.

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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Wed May 9th, 2007 3:17pm Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
I think NORMAL may have something to do with continuity of ACTION with the opposite ABNORMAL being the stuck-ness in a project , that moment when one can't go on anymore.
We don't feel "different" until we stop being engaged.
I think NORMAL has something to do to being involved, being part of the whole, being continuously needed for the whole to exist.
People who get a divorce, or loose a job, or retire, they all seem to have in common, not just the susceptibility to depression, but also the abandonment from partner, company of society.
Maybe abnormal may have something to do with the moment when nobody needs us more the we need ourselves.
And maybe this is one of the reason people who recover from "abnormality" are those who did find a reason beyond themselves to go on.
And the unfortunate ones are the ones that haven't had in a long time somebody to knock on their door for a cup of sugar,

D

Are you basically saying that to be normal is to interact with others and have them interact with you? Im not quite sure if I agree with you there... I agree that as PART of a society's "normal" to socialise and connect with others is commonplace, but I dont think it is the definition or standard as to what is normal.
Normal is what you - the individual - feel is normal. If you dont know what normal is and you follow the person beside you's definition of normal then you are putting standards on yourself to meet with that definition. thats what society as a whole does.... it sets out a general "norm" in order for everyone to co-agulate into this mass of existance. its not right or wrong, it just is.

In Ireland it is seen as the norm to work monday to friday 9-6, go out and drink friday night, get locked beyond recognition, go out saturday night, get locked beyond recognition, wake up sunday and go to mass, eat a huge sunday roast and watch GAA the rest of the day. Then get up Monday and start over. If you dont do that people often look at you and ask whats wrong with you.... But thats not MY norm. I dont do that at all, does that make me abnormal? even though what I do is normal to my life? I go to college monday, tuesday, thursday, friday, I dont work, I spend most of my time looking after the house, reading, college work, shopping, cinema, making something.... sometimes I go out drinking, not every weekend though. dont really need it.

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davidzzz


Member

Posted Wed May 9th, 2007 5:04pm Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
I never said that schizophrenics should volunteer to the local soup kitchen to make it all better, or that one needs to please the crowd in order to be part of its normality.
But it seems to me there is an irrefutable connection between one’s individual connection to community/family and his/her wellbeing.

If we believe that every person has an individualized map of the world around them, maybe the “norm” is where these maps coincide. There isn’t one individual that have the perfect map of normality, just different levels of overlapping.

And here is where you have the subtle variations. An autistic/asperger individual may have trouble making that translation because he can not continuously perceive the feedback (like trying to imagine body language in a phone conversation), but they are good at remembering where those two maps overlap. An ADHD individual may have a hard time focusing on one specific area by continuosly trying to translate the whole map. A BP may have double maps.


A psychiatrist may be an individual who has seen/read a lot of maps and can help an individual do his/her personal translation. Where this help fails is that not all maps are created equal.

Several clinical studies have shown that white matter connecting the right frontal lobe with the auditory cortex in the right temporal lobe is thinner in people who are sensitive to music. Or that religious feelings widens the fibrous area of the frontal lobe. Bipolar disorder affects hippocampus, subicullum and entorhinal cortex. But that does not mean that every person who has the white matter thinning, an extended fibrous area and with a reduced activity and impulsivity of the frontal lobe is a bipolar priest who likes to play piano.

Not the map of a brain, not the map of a person can tell you exactly how that person may be, but is interesting to notice that the more connections (people that can be localized in each one of the maps) on this map, the easier it may be to make the translation from the personal map to the one that seems to fit the most.
“No man is an island”, that’s what I meant to say.
D

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Fourth Feline


Member

Posted Wed May 9th, 2007 5:19pm Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
I never said that schizophrenics should volunteer to the local soup kitchen to make it all better, or that one needs to please the crowd in order to be part of its normality.
But it seems to me there is an irrefutable connection between one’s individual connection to community/family and his/her wellbeing.

If we believe that every person has an individualized map of the world around them, maybe the “norm” is where these maps coincide. There isn’t one individual that have the perfect map of normality, just different levels of overlapping.

And here is where you have the subtle variations. An autistic/asperger individual may have trouble making that translation because he can not continuously perceive the feedback (like trying to imagine body language in a phone conversation), but they are good at remembering where those two maps overlap. An ADHD individual may have a hard time focusing on one specific area by continuosly trying to translate the whole map. A BP may have double maps.


A psychiatrist may be an individual who has seen/read a lot of maps and can help an individual do his/her personal translation. Where this help fails is that not all maps are created equal.

Several clinical studies have shown that white matter connecting the right frontal lobe with the auditory cortex in the right temporal lobe is thinner in people who are sensitive to music. Or that religious feelings widens the fibrous area of the frontal lobe. Bipolar disorder affects hippocampus, subicullum and entorhinal cortex. But that does not mean that every person who has the white matter thinning, an extended fibrous area and with a reduced activity and impulsivity of the frontal lobe is a bipolar priest who likes to play piano.

Not the map of a brain, not the map of a person can tell you exactly how that person may be, but is interesting to notice that the more connections (people that can be localized in each one of the maps) on this map, the easier it may be to make the translation from the personal map to the one that seems to fit the most.
“No man is an island”, that’s what I meant to say.
D

Some interesting points there David, Funnily enough - I remember that when I was in hospital 24 years ago, one of the nurses felt that he could almost 'measure' my improvement by the amount of social interaction I displayed and to further accelerate my recovery encouraged ex-girlfriends/family/friends to visit, even though ( or perhaps because ) I was 'numb' at the time.

As someone who is usually equally comfortable with my own company I was at the time bemused, but he had a point.

Even now I feel 'healthier' if the right kind of visitor pops in.

This free expression of social interaction is considered more 'normal' by the majority of people I know, even though I do not feel a degree of solitude 'abnormal'.

You have given me further food for thought David.

Regards,

F.F.

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davidzzz


Member

Posted Fri May 11th, 2007 6:58am Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
There is an interesting boook by Franz Rosenzweig that has been once translated into english in 1953 by Nahum N. Glatzer under the name "Understanding the Sick and the Healthy (I have not read the english translation). Although is a "contraption" of a more faimous book and although it had a different purpose in 1921 when it was written, I still think it's worth reading it, (by now it may be available online at Gutenberg PA project)
D

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meekychuppet


Member

Posted Fri May 11th, 2007 8:34am Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
There is an interesting boook by Franz Rosenzweig that has been once translated into english in 1953 by Nahum N. Glatzer under the name "Understanding the Sick and the Healthy (I have not read the english translation). Although is a "contraption" of a more faimous book and although it had a different purpose in 1921 when it was written, I still think it's worth reading it, (by now it may be available online at Gutenberg PA project)
D

The translation will be under copyright as it's 75 years after the author's death and a translation counts as a new piece.

That said I have read it.

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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Fri May 11th, 2007 11:49pm Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
Well according to Balderdash and Piffle tonight, the dictionary basically defines a normal person as someone who is healthy and not impared or something or other.... Im trying to find the exact quote. If that is the case, then we (humans) are all impared in some way so noone is normal. Therefore normal dosnt exist. Ill find the quote though to clarify....

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Crazy_in_a_box


Member

Posted Fri May 11th, 2007 11:57pm Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
ok cant find the one that they used on the show but here is the definition from dictionary.com:

nor·mal /ˈnɔrməl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nawr-muhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.

2. serving to establish a standard.

3. Psychology. a. approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b. free from any mental disorder; sane.

4. Biology, Medicine/Medical. a. free from any infection or other form of disease or malformation, or from experimental therapy or manipulation.
b. of natural occurrence.



Interesting....

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Anonymous


Unregistered

Posted Sun May 13th, 2007 1:48am Post subject: What on earth is 'normal'?
Kinda saying that 'normal' is perfectly meaningful in the context its being used.

["Abnormality is any behaviour or emotional state that causes an individual great suffering or wrong, that is self-defeating or self-destructive, or that is maladaptive and disrupt's a person's relationships or larger community."
Wade & tavris 1993]

Normal is the converse to this, it seems to me, in terms of what is normal mental health. I think a lot of people get hung up on the idea of mental health being just about poor mental health. Everybody has mental health, just as they do physical health. Some people's mental health is better than other's, for a range of reasons.

Hope this makes sense.

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